is gay marriage immoral?

Starting a new thread because we were dragging a different one radically off topic.Here's the issue -
LudoRepham writes on why he feels it's important for the nation to ban gay marriage: My question is this -
How do we determine that homosexuality is "immoral and sickening"? Either the sexual acts, the relationships, or the idea of gay marriage. Any of them.I've heard this arguement - "Cuz the Bible sez it is!". I don't buy that. There needs to be a solid, rational, reasoning behind what's said if it's to be obeyed. There is PLENTY in the Bible which is not rational and therefore completely ignored - sacrific a goat lately, anyone?There are plenty of cultures who do not rely on the Bible for the establishment of moral codes. Further, the Bible doesn't cover new acts, leaving us with questions like - "Is cow tipping immoral?" "Is reading someone else's email immoral?" etc.What I am looking for in this thread is for someone who is anti-"gay marriage", anti-"gay sex", or anti-"gay people caring about one another" to muscle up and explain why these three things are "immoral" without simply falling back onto "cuz it says so" type arguements.Here's an example of a non-"says so" based argument--
I would argue that cow tipping is immoral because it causes unwanted harm to a living creature for no more benefit than human amusement.I would rank cow tippings as less of an offense than say cock-fights, which are likewise immoral for the same reasons.Edited by Nuggin, : Clarifying

You need to make it clearer whether you are talking about the immorality of homosexual acts, or the immorality of gay marriage. The quote you give is about the immorality of the acts but your final line is about the immorablity of gay marriage.My general reaction to the PNT, however, is that in either case it's already been argued at evc without reference to the Bible many times. I've done so myself. But maybe another admin will have a different take on it.

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I don't think there needs to be a distinction. I have yet to hear a valid argument indicating that either one is immoral.As for this - If we start shutting down new threads simply on the basis that old threads cover the same group, I suggest we kill any and all threads that mention words like "ark", "flood", "species", "eve", etc.We go over ground again and again because we lose people, we get new people, people change their perspective, events in the world change.If there is a current, active, thread specifically about the question, "what makes gays immoral?", I'll happily post my question there.

quote:

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My question is this -
Setting aside the Bible for a second, how do we determine what is "immoral"? Obviously, there are cultures on Earth that do not follow the teachings of the Bible, but they have a moral code and therefore a system of determining what is or is not moral.

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Further, the Bible doesn't cover new acts, leaving us with questions like - "Is cow tipping immoral?" "Is reading someone else's email immoral?" etc.

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What I am looking for in this thread is for someone who is anti-gay marriage to muscle up and explain why gay marriage is immoral without having to fall back on "Cuz the Bible says so".

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I understand what you are looking to discuss, but I feel that the question Setting aside the Bible for a second, how do we determine what is "immoral"? is going to lead the discussion in the wrong direction.I assume your last statement is really what you are wanting to discuss.I suggest revamping the section I quoted to keep in line with your last statement.

I have rephrased the original post to clarify

Much better. I'm moving it over to Social issues. Try to keep it on track and not wander. Enjoy!

Thread copied to the Is Gay Marriage Immoral? thread in the Social Issues and Creation/Evolution forum, this copy of the thread has been closed.