For the Benefit of ICANT - About lightning

Hello ICANTI lit the thing. Now let’s see if I inhale.Firstly, your challenge wrongly assumes that there are positrons under the clouds and on the ground to react with electrons within the clouds. There aren’t. Positrons are anti-electrons: antimatter. Antimatter is very rare stuff. Iirc, all the antimatter man has ever created amounts to 3 billionths of a gram. When a positron does happen to be created naturally in the atmosphere it only lasts a few billionth of a second before meeting an electron and poofing into a gamma ray. Now, gamma rays are nasty things. If there were visible electron-positron poofing going on only a mile over our heads we’d be dead.Secondly, lightning is a rebalancing of electric charge. Protons, if that is what you meant rather then positrons, aren’t as free to move around as electrons are. So all of the redistribution of electric charge is redistribution of electrons. In a process not well understood, friction within the clouds forces a charge separation which builds until it is great enough to establish or take advantage of a discharge path. This path can be from cloud to cloud or to ground.I don’t really see how lightning being due to electron-positron annihilation can be debated. The best I can expect is for ICANT to recant. But if there is an argument to be made I love to see it.ICANT, the floor is yours.Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Added " - About lightning" part to topic title.

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You are now a million miles away from where you were in space-time when you started reading this sentence.

Wouldn't want you to miss your own party.

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You are now a million miles away from where you were in space-time when you started reading this sentence.

I have sometimes said that the only subject in science that I have never seen a creationist be wrong about is electricity.I will now withdraw this remark.

The ones that Zeus used to throw had positrons!!1! It's just these wimpy-assed modern lightning bolts that don't!

Pah! Zeus throws weak bolts! Thor is the true master of lightning! His bolts had nuclear powers!1!111!!! Also, they were much more manly than Zeus's effeminate bolts!So there!

Hi lyx2no, I didn't realize I was issuing a challenge. I thought I was suggesting that you show me how my statement was not true. Is that the only possibility? SourceDo you refute that they can just scatter off each other?So electrons and positrons are the same thing on one is positive and the other is negative.In the top of the thunderstorm there are positive charged electrons (positrons).In the middle there are negative charged electrons. These cause a positive charge to be under the cloud to the ground.The lightning bolt is caused by the negative charge producing a leading connection to the ground causing a connection that when returned to the negative charged electrons in the cloud produce the lightning bolt.This is called a negative lightning bolt. This can happen between clouds also.The positive lighting bolt which is 10 time stronger comes from the top of the cloud and the sky can be almost clear. The positive charge is carried by the cloud rather than the ground. The positive bolt only goes to the ground and accounts for only about 5% of the lightning strikes. What is there that I need to recant?Electrons and positrons do not always annihilate each other.A positive and a negative charge is required to create a lightning bolt.Whether it is a negative charge in the cloud which created a positive charge under the cloud to the ground which creates negative lighting.ORA positive charge in the top of the cloud going to a negative charge on the ground.Lightning does not need a rain cloud to be produced. It can be produced above an intense forest fire, as well as being produced in a dust cloud from a volcano eruption.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Did you learn chemistry in highschool?
You should be aware that positive charges come from atoms lacking some electrons called cation : Ion - Wikipedia
The electricity from the lightning comes from the same source as the one you use to make your computer work: the travel of electrons from anions to cations. I can't believe you ignore that. By the way, back in high schools, we made experiments to make a pile using this....
Surely, you didn't think we created positrons in order to have electricity?
Positron - Wikipedia

Not that ICANT isn't wrong, but I did find this interesting:http://www.sciencenews.org/...timatter_detected_in_lightning

quote:

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WASHINGTON Designed to scan the heavens thousands to billions of light-years beyond the solar system for gamma rays, the Fermi Gamma-ray Space Telescope has also picked up a shocking vibe from Earth. During its first 14 months of operation, the flying observatory has detected 17 gamma-ray flashes associated with terrestrial storms and some of those flashes have contained a surprising signature of antimatter.

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During two recent lightning storms, Fermi recorded gamma-ray emissions of a particular energy that could have been produced only by the decay of energetic positrons, the antimatter equivalent of electrons. The observations are the first of their kind for lightning storms. Michael Briggs of the University of Alabama in Huntsville announced the puzzling findings November 5 at the 2009 Fermi Symposium.

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It’s a surprise to have found the signature of positrons during a lightning storm, Briggs said.

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The 17 flashes Fermi detected occurred just before, during and immediately after lightning strikes, as tracked by the World Wide Lightning Location Network.

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During lightning storms previously observed by other spacecraft, energetic electrons moving toward the craft slowed down and produced gamma rays. The unusual positron signature seen by Fermi suggests that the normal orientation for an electric field associated with a lightning storm somehow reversed, Briggs said. Modelers are now working to figure out how the field reversal could have occurred. But for now, he said, the answer is up in the air.

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Recording gamma-ray flashes which have the potential to harm airplanes in storms isn’t new. The first were found by NASA’s Compton Gamma-ray Observatory in the early 1990s. NASA’s RHESSI satellite, which primarily looks at X-ray and gamma-ray emissions from the sun, has found some 800 terrestrial gamma-ray flashes, Briggs noted.

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Its not positrons, its positively charged ions. Positrons are antimatter.The positively charged ions in the tops of clouds are just missing electrons.You're fairly accurate in your discription of lightning, you're just wrong about the positron part.

Why would I refute that? Would you refute that babies sometime fall out of windows while discussing what is meant by "firmament" In the King James Bible?
sourceIf you're going to supply a source could you try to make it relevant. The source you need to supply would be one the mentioned electron-positrons annihilation being involved in lightning creation. I'll take a guess that you couldn't find one. Yeah, I know. You could have used my first post as a source for that one. See, this is the kind of thing you need a source for. But there isn't one. Google it. You'll find that you are the originator of this statement. Or are you going to use yourself as a source on that one? I get the idea that you think I'll get confused and agree with your erroneous stuff if you cloud the issue with someone else's real stuff. (Yeah, I read Wiki too.) Close enough; but the question at hand is of what form is the positive charge. Your claim is that it is positrons. I made no claim but I'm willing to go out on a limb and say cations: atoms and molecules that have been striped of one or more electrons. The electrons are carried away from the cations by one force or another (wind currents, gravity what have you.) When the gradient becomes too great to sustain Flash Boom; the electrons return to the cations, and we don't all die from gamma ray bursts. (A really strong indicator for no positrons.) Want to show me where that argument ever came up? Oh! guess what happens to the positron that scatters a billionth of a second later it meets up with an electron that it won't scatter from Pop! Gamma ray pair.I lit it. I inhaled. Yet it is you who blew smoke. Go figure.

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You are now a million miles away from where you were in space-time when you started reading this sentence.

To be fair, Thor used an atlatl.

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You are now a million miles away from where you were in space-time when you started reading this sentence.

Maybe they can bust a fresh move* with levers and inclined planes? *Develop a new skill set.Edited by lyx2no, : Add definition.

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You are now a million miles away from where you were in space-time when you started reading this sentence.

That just shows he has brain as well as brawn.

Zeus Forever!I'm mighty thor with you thmart-assed thon-of-a-bithes that thupport those Northe gods.....