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Author
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Topic: Why am I me?
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cavediver
Member (Idle past 3674 days) Posts: 4129 From: UK Joined: 06-16-2005
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Message 1 of 47 (304747)
04-17-2006 12:12 PM
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If I could swap my homunculus with Crash's, nobody would notice anything different: Crash would be just as insulting, obnoxious, witty and insightful... except I would be Crash. Of course I would probably think that I always had been Crash and would not think I could be any different as it was Cavediver that came up with the idea of swapping Homunculi, not me. I didn't know anything about it until I woke up with a hastily bandaged flip-top head... Would Cavediver realise that he had once been me? He would have the memories of performing the operation, but nothing else seemed to be different. Anyway, can I be Crash for while? Hang on, what's this scar...?
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member
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Message 2 of 47 (304758)
04-17-2006 12:33 PM
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Reply to: Message 1 by cavediver
04-17-2006 12:12 PM
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If I could swap my homunculus with Crash's, nobody would notice anything different: Crash would be just as insulting, obnoxious, witty and insightful... except I would be Crash. Wouldn't you notice that you had a different body?
Would Cavediver realise that he had once been me? Like above, wouldn't crash realize he was in cavediver's body? Maybe I don't understand homunculus transplants well enough, but I thought that you'd still be you but in a different body, or it still be your body but a different you. Am I misunderstanding? This message has been edited by Catholic Scientist, 04-17-2006 11:33 AM
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1 by cavediver, posted 04-17-2006 12:12 PM | | cavediver has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 3 by cavediver, posted 04-17-2006 12:41 PM | | New Cat's Eye has replied |
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cavediver
Member (Idle past 3674 days) Posts: 4129 From: UK Joined: 06-16-2005
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I'm being a little flippant with my concept of homunculus, but the idea is that the homunculus carries no memory or emotion (they are functions of the brain and body.) It is merely identity, the primal awareness. My point is that "I" am not needed to be me. "I" am trapped in this human called Cavediver, and I can never have the fun of riding in anyone else's existence. Of course, this sense of identity/awareness is described by neuroscience as just an emergent property of the brain's activity. But given that this indentity/awareness has no discernable attributes, this is certainly just conjecture...
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jar
Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 4 of 47 (304763)
04-17-2006 12:42 PM
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Reply to: Message 1 by cavediver
04-17-2006 12:12 PM
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Ask Shirley MacLaine.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1 by cavediver, posted 04-17-2006 12:12 PM | | cavediver has not replied |
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member
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Message 5 of 47 (304767)
04-17-2006 12:58 PM
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Reply to: Message 3 by cavediver
04-17-2006 12:41 PM
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the idea is that the homunculus carries no memory or emotion (they are functions of the brain and body.) It is merely identity, the primal awareness. So you wouldn't even know it happened? You, the cavediver body, would just become insulting, obnoxious, witty and insightful? And you, the insane suicidal although intellegent scuba guy, would be in crash's body?
My point is that "I" am not needed to be me. "I" am trapped in this human called Cavediver, and I can never have the fun of riding in anyone else's existence. But I don't even think you would be able to tell it happened if it did. But would other people notice the change in your attitude, if that is what would happen?
this is certainly just conjecture... eh, so what...
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 3 by cavediver, posted 04-17-2006 12:41 PM | | cavediver has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 7 by cavediver, posted 04-17-2006 1:10 PM | | New Cat's Eye has replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18354 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
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Message 6 of 47 (304770)
04-17-2006 1:09 PM
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Reply to: Message 3 by cavediver
04-17-2006 12:41 PM
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Swap meet
Hey Cavediver! err Crash! uuh..whoever you are, can you please explain to me what homunculus are? If you swapped with me, and I had yours, would I just keep on functioning with the body that I have....unaware of any other quirks and differences from what I used to be?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 3 by cavediver, posted 04-17-2006 12:41 PM | | cavediver has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 8 by cavediver, posted 04-17-2006 1:20 PM | | Phat has not replied |
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cavediver
Member (Idle past 3674 days) Posts: 4129 From: UK Joined: 06-16-2005
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So you wouldn't even know it happened? You, the cavediver body, would just become insulting, obnoxious, witty and insightful? No, the "insulting, obnoxious, witty and insightful" bit is a function of Crash's brain so I would now be "insulting, obnoxious, witty and insightful". I now being Crash...
And you, the insane suicidal although intellegent scuba guy, would be in crash's body? No, "I" would be in Crash's body, but the "insane suicidal although intellegent scuba guy" would remain in Cavediver's body. Everything that makes Cavediver act as Cavediver is a function of Cavediver's brain, CNS, memories, body, etc. "I" don't do anything but enjoy the ride. Now I want to enjoy the ride in a different vehicle... how?
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cavediver
Member (Idle past 3674 days) Posts: 4129 From: UK Joined: 06-16-2005
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Message 8 of 47 (304773)
04-17-2006 1:20 PM
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Reply to: Message 6 by Phat
04-17-2006 1:09 PM
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Re: Swap meet
Hi Phat  The Homunculus was thought to be the real you, a small creature sat inside your head, looking out through the windows of your eyes, controlling your actions. Remember that alien who was working a store in MIB? And he was actually a little alien living in the "human" robot's head? That's the idea... I'm abusing this notion as I am considering a homunculus that has no memory, control, emotions, etc. It just provides awareness. You could just call it awareness if you like. We usually assume that self-awareness develops as a side-effect of advanced brain-function but I've never been too convinced... If I built a perfect robotic replica me that was psychologically indistinguishable, would it necessarily have awareness? This message has been edited by cavediver, 04-17-2006 01:21 PM
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 6 by Phat, posted 04-17-2006 1:09 PM | | Phat has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 42 by sidelined, posted 04-18-2006 2:08 AM | | cavediver has not replied |
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member
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Message 9 of 47 (304774)
04-17-2006 1:27 PM
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Reply to: Message 7 by cavediver
04-17-2006 1:10 PM
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ok, I get it. You want to know what it'd be like to be someone else. I think we've all wanted that at some time. I wanna have one of those orgasms that my girlfriend has, holy shit!
Now I want to enjoy the ride in a different vehicle... how? Beats me...maybe a homunculus transplant? 
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 7 by cavediver, posted 04-17-2006 1:10 PM | | cavediver has replied |
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cavediver
Member (Idle past 3674 days) Posts: 4129 From: UK Joined: 06-16-2005
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You want to know what it'd be like to be someone else Bingo But I am trying to formalise it a little...
I wanna have one of those orgasms that my girlfriend has, holy shit! Tell me about it. There is no way that God is male...
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kalimero
Member (Idle past 2475 days) Posts: 251 From: Israel Joined: 04-08-2006
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Message 11 of 47 (304778)
04-17-2006 1:42 PM
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Reply to: Message 1 by cavediver
04-17-2006 12:12 PM
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I am me because I is defined as me. Or in other words, I cant be not me. I=me. Me Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1 by cavediver, posted 04-17-2006 12:12 PM | | cavediver has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 13 by cavediver, posted 04-17-2006 1:46 PM | | kalimero has replied |
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1.61803
Member (Idle past 1535 days) Posts: 2928 From: Lone Star State USA Joined: 02-19-2004
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When Harry met Sally cafeteria scene
Ever seen "When Harry met Sally"?
"One is punished most for ones virtues" Fredrick Neitzche
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cavediver
Member (Idle past 3674 days) Posts: 4129 From: UK Joined: 06-16-2005
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Message 13 of 47 (304781)
04-17-2006 1:46 PM
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Reply to: Message 11 by kalimero
04-17-2006 1:42 PM
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True but unhelpful 
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 11 by kalimero, posted 04-17-2006 1:42 PM | | kalimero has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 14 by kalimero, posted 04-17-2006 2:00 PM | | cavediver has replied |
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kalimero
Member (Idle past 2475 days) Posts: 251 From: Israel Joined: 04-08-2006
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Message 14 of 47 (304783)
04-17-2006 2:00 PM
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Reply to: Message 13 by cavediver
04-17-2006 1:46 PM
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unhelpful? If the topic is 'Why am I me?' and also I = me , then its like asking 'Why is 2 2?' because 2 = 2 . There is no existential arguement, its just definition.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 13 by cavediver, posted 04-17-2006 1:46 PM | | cavediver has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 15 by cavediver, posted 04-17-2006 2:02 PM | | kalimero has replied |
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cavediver
Member (Idle past 3674 days) Posts: 4129 From: UK Joined: 06-16-2005
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Message 15 of 47 (304784)
04-17-2006 2:02 PM
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Reply to: Message 14 by kalimero
04-17-2006 2:00 PM
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then its like asking 'Why is 2 2?'
because 2 = 2 Not for sufficiently large values of 2...
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 14 by kalimero, posted 04-17-2006 2:00 PM | | kalimero has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 16 by kalimero, posted 04-17-2006 2:07 PM | | cavediver has replied |
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