Any turncoats in the house?

Hi allWas sitting here watching the same old arguments go round and round and the same old heads crash together once again and I got to thinking . .Have there been any confirmed cases of people going over to the other side?Evo’s going over to Creationism or Goddites coming over to Evolution? Or has this forum failed to make a significant impression of all concerned?Just interested.

I don't know the answer to your question. I haven't been involved with this forum for very long. Maybe an old timer will know about some cases.I don't expect many turncoats. The people who are likely to change are those who have been struggling, unsure which way to go. Most of those are unlikely to sign up for membership at EvCforum, although they may be lurkers. I don't know if you have seen What to believe, crisis of faith. It was started by someone who is struggling.

I have not changed in that I am a believer. I believe that God created the Heavens (elements, inertia, laws of reality) and that He is the definer of reality in general.This site has caused me to trust the theory of evolution as a logical gathering of information which caused me to deny the literalism of creationism as described by Answers In Genesis and other such sources.For me, the jury is still out in many of our debates...in fact the jury has not even properly convened yet.I Do believe in God, and that He is a source of many things immeasureable.I am learning to trust human wisdom to a point...relating to many at EvC has helped foster this trust.

I have seen creationists who have arrived with limited scientific knowledge (it's a theory not a fact!) realise that maybe they were operating on a false premise and that's it's not an OR situation in regards to their faith and science.I have never seen anyone shift the other way - in fact I'd argue that most of the interaction that the atheists have with the christians tends to push them further away from any belief in the christian godhead.This message has been edited by CK, 18-Sep-2005 04:52 AM

I can only think of two people who have somewhat switched to the other side from creo to evo. Neither switched completely. I can't really think of their names right now.The fact of the matter is the creos that come to this site are too ignorant (I'm not meaning this in an offensive way... I am ignorant of literature and celebrities' identities) of basic scientific knowledge to be able to tell the difference between facts and wishful thinking. Just how many creo you know actually know anything about genetics? If you ask the typical creo on here about how evolution works, chances are that he will say the good ole thing: "everything came about randomly..."This is part of the reason why I have almost completely stopped debating with people on some subjects. Talking to a creo is like talking to a wall. Sure, you can try to get it to understand or reply to you, but in the end it's just a wall. Unless you force some kind of intelligence into the wall, it's not going to understand a thing you say.The same thing can be said about evo's. A professor once told me that people can never take my education away from me. Well, how the hell can you take away the years of study and experience from a scientist to make him ignorant? Can you think of anyway to make someone like Mammuthus stop believing in his work and start using "goddunit" as the explanation for everything in his field? Would anyone like to try to stop me from believing in the graviation theory and start believing in angels or god pushing things "down"?There are just too much differences between the two ways of world view. On one side, goddunit is the answer to everything. On the other, uncertainty is the name of the game. Two polar opposites.Added by edit.http://EvC Forum: WHY IS IT SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND?Take a look at that new proposed topic. Can anyone seriously think that this person has any chance with a field of science or even the very basic knowledge of it? It's fun to debate with people, but in the end we're just talking to a wall. Whoever this person is is too indoctrinated/brainwashed to know any better.This message has been edited by GAW-Snow, 09-18-2005 05:51 AM

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My favorite quotes of the week.I'd sooner let John Couey, C-O-U-E-Y, who raped and buried alive little Jessica, I'd sooner let him adopt kids, than turn them over to the fags and dykes! That clear enough for ya? --Fred PhelpsYeah, I used to question but I strive to be wise, a questioning philosopher isn't wise, a hard laborer that perhaps lacks education and only has a few simplistic beliefs but does not question those beliefs is wise. -- Guess who

I used to be a creationist but the change didn't happen here.

Why did you used to believe in it?

Like crashfrog, I used to be a creationist; but I became an evolutionist long before I discovered this forum.

I didn't understand how new species came to be. (The "hopeful monster" problem.) An astounding oversight in American biological education at the high school level.That and ridiculous Kent Hovind videos, and I wasn't particularly well-informed.

The same reason that we all used to believe in monsters under our beds and santa. 5 year olds will believe anything an adult tell them, including the IPU.

I remember one dude toataly denouncing mormonism, but he wouldn't denounce christianity in general.

Read the story of a Creationists 'converting' to the 'other side' here

I would say that there is a gap between those who believe in creationism "because the Bible says so" and those who philosophically and/or theologically believe in God. Do you ever read my descriptions of the theory between the source of human wisdom (like igod...the accumulated knowledge of all humanity as a resource) and a belief?(Such as the presuppossed theory that God is an initial source and interacts with at least some of us.)