Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 59 (9164 total)
3 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,920 Year: 4,177/9,624 Month: 1,048/974 Week: 7/368 Day: 7/11 Hour: 1/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Data, Information, and all that....
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1497 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 206 of 299 (78786)
01-15-2004 11:19 PM
Reply to: Message 205 by DNAunion
01-15-2004 10:45 PM


Snowflakes contain syntactic information in the specific arrangement of their hexagonal shapes, but these patterns have no semantic content, no meaning for anything beyond the structure itself. By contrast, the distinctive feature of biological information is that it is replete with meaning. DNA stores the instructions needed to build a functioning organism; it is a blueprint or an algorithm for a specified, predetermined product. Snowflakes don’t code for, or symbolize, anything, whereas genes most definitely do.
Now, since that entirely and fully satisifes my question, why didn't you say that in the first place, instead of calling me names and generally carrying on like an intellectual bully?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 205 by DNAunion, posted 01-15-2004 10:45 PM DNAunion has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 207 by Ian C, posted 01-16-2004 12:14 AM crashfrog has replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1497 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 208 of 299 (78809)
01-16-2004 1:26 AM
Reply to: Message 207 by Ian C
01-16-2004 12:14 AM


As for the difference -- put simply, crystals form the way they do simply because that is the way that takes the least energy in the particular growth conditions.
Well, it's my understanding that the chemical reactions that occur in the body happen under the same situation - in the chemical environment of the cell, in the presence of the enzymes that are there, the chemicals react the way they do because that's the way that takes the least energy. They would have to react like that in order to preserve the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics, right?
Certainly a crystal is a very simple reaction compared to what is happening in cells, with DNA. Nonetheless the difference is not qualitative, it seems to me. Of course according to DNAunion I'm an idiot, so what do I know?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 207 by Ian C, posted 01-16-2004 12:14 AM Ian C has not replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1497 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 274 of 299 (94370)
03-24-2004 5:55 AM
Reply to: Message 271 by DNAunion
03-24-2004 1:02 AM


So if something’s distribution is far from being equal, it can correctly be said to be nonrandom. Thus, it can be correctly stated that genomes with hotspots — mutations that are clearly not evenly distributed throughout the genome - have mutations that are not truly random.
Just curious: By extension, when I go to the Indian casino up the road and shoot craps, does the fact that the craps roll only happens at the craps table and never in the lobby or by the Bingo games - that is to say, not "equally spacially distributed" - mean that the craps roll is nonrandom?
(Ah, but of course, you're talking about DNA and not casinos. Guess I might as well say "ah" in preparation for you to jump down my throat again. Prove me wrong, maybe?)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 271 by DNAunion, posted 03-24-2004 1:02 AM DNAunion has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 275 by DNAunion, posted 03-24-2004 11:23 AM crashfrog has replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1497 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 277 of 299 (94426)
03-24-2004 11:56 AM
Reply to: Message 275 by DNAunion
03-24-2004 11:23 AM


A "counter" so ridiculous it doesn't deserve my - or anyone else's - time.
Am I to presume that you say that simply because you don't have an answer? Because it looks that way. Why else would a simple question be responded to with ridicule?
How did I know that your response would be along those lines, I wonder?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 275 by DNAunion, posted 03-24-2004 11:23 AM DNAunion has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 283 by DNAunion, posted 03-25-2004 9:32 AM crashfrog has replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1497 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 284 of 299 (94659)
03-25-2004 9:36 AM
Reply to: Message 283 by DNAunion
03-25-2004 9:32 AM


. You moved from the original topic to an analogy that didn't maintain correspondence to what it was "modeling": you changed key factors.
So explain how. What factors? My analogy demonstrates that when people use the word "random", they do so without reference to the spacial location of the event in question. You haven't even come close to defending your interpretation of random, yet.
It's your argument - you have the burden of proof to show that it is legitimate...so go ahead.
Oh, please.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 283 by DNAunion, posted 03-25-2004 9:32 AM DNAunion has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 285 by DNAunion, posted 03-25-2004 9:42 AM crashfrog has not replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1497 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 295 of 299 (94702)
03-25-2004 1:05 PM


Now I know I must be wrong - an anonymous internet poster called me an idiot! How can I possibly refute that?

Replies to this message:
 Message 296 by DNAunion, posted 03-25-2004 1:43 PM crashfrog has replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1497 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 297 of 299 (94710)
03-25-2004 1:53 PM
Reply to: Message 296 by DNAunion
03-25-2004 1:43 PM


Jesus it takes a lot of work to get a meaningful response from you, DNA. Why is that?
I've already won, now that I’ve quoted the strongly anti-Creationist biologist Richard Dawkins stating that hotspots do show mutations to not be random, in that sense.
Naturally, since Dawkins is the arbiter of all language. Oh, wait.
Of course, all I was saying (which you might have noticed had you not flown off the handle exactly as I predicted) was that nobody who uses the word "random" in practice does so with the expectation that it always means "randomly distributed in space." So you're right, Dawkins is right, and I'm right. Mutations are random, except in space. That's still random.
That's all my point has ever been.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 296 by DNAunion, posted 03-25-2004 1:43 PM DNAunion has not replied

Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024