Greenland Ice Cores

I'll see your measly 110,000 years of ice core layers and raise you:

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Data from The Devil's Hole (fitting eh?)

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See
USGS URL Resolution Error Page
USGS URL Resolution Error Page
and USGS URL Resolution Error Page:

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Devils Hole is a tectonically formed cave developed in the discharge zone of a regional aquifer in south-central Nevada. (See Riggs, et al., 1994.) The walls of this subaqueous cavern are coated with dense vein calcite which provides an ideal material for precise uranium-series dating via thermal ionization mass spectrometry (TIMS). Devils Hole Core DH-11 is a 36-cm-long core of vein calcite from which we obtained an approximately 500,000-year-long continuous record of paleotemperature and other climatic proxies. Data from this core were recently used by Winograd and others (1997) to discuss the length and stability of the last four interglaciations.

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The Devils Hole d18O record is an indicator of paleotemperature and corresponds in timing and magnitude to paleo-SST (sea surface temperature) recorded in Pacific Ocean sediments off the California and Oregon coasts. The record is also highly correlated with major variations in temperature in the Vostok ice core, from the East Antarctic plateau.

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As eminent a geochemist as W. Broecker has stated that "...the Devils Hole chronology is the best we have..." Since 1992, all core material has been uranium-series dated using thermal ionization mass spectrometric (TIMS) methodology. In 1997, the Devils Hole Thorium-230 dates were independently confirmed by non-USGS investigators using Protactinium-231.

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Measured by counting actual layers of calcite and corroborated by two independant radiometric methods. Oldest date in table is 567,700 years ago.

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Minimum age of the earth = 567,700 +/- 20,000 based on this data.

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Note: climate data matches ice core climate data for periods of overlap, thus they also corroborate each other.

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Enjoy.

ahahahaaaa

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but

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you started with layers, one for every year in between, lined up and regular as oatmeal.

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I raised you with layers, one for every year and covered with vermont grade A maple syrup ....

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and you jump straight to dinner! (the main course no less).

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One thing for sure, with the layers and layers of data, and with the corroborations between them ... and with similar data from the oak tree-ring database from europe, the bristlecone pine database from california, the algae varve database from Japan ... etcetera, etcetera and so on: that there is enough solid linked no loophole data that the earth is waaaay older than any rationial YEC model can justify -- the evidence is as overwhelming as the facts of the oblate spheroid earth orbiting the sun ...

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that the YEC people are no less foolish than any flatearthers.

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Enjoy

Gee there is enough cross correlating information on the age of the earth past, say, 40,000 years (just to draw an easy line in the sand) that the only way to explain it without actual years is to have some supernatural activity cause all plant, animal and mineral dating methods to behave as if the years had actually occurred with their full durations. This concept is so ludicrous that I would not presume to assume it of any rational being.

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But hey, if you are YEC and you have some scientific explanation of all these systems feel free to make an effort. Note that this is within the 50,000 or so limit of Carbon-14 dating so you can have fun with that as well. Time to stop acting hurt and start some action.

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Enjoy

K(sniff)which ones are crazy?

You ask: "Is it true that most or all of the prominent dating methods rely on Radioactive decay?"That is the point of the Greenland ice core data -- it is based on counting layers of annual snowfallAnd the Devils Hole calcite data that counts annual layers of mineral deposits
USGS URL Resolution Error PageAnd the Lake Suigetsu (Japan) algae data that counts annual layers of organic growth
http://www.cio.phys.rug.nl/HTML-docs/Verslag/97/PE-04.htmAnd the White Mountain bristlecone pine data that counts annual growth rings in very long-lived trees (one is still living and is 4,600 years old)
Requested Page Not Found (404)Each of these actual count methods corroborates the others on seasonal variations and climate change worldwide (showing evidence of the "Little Ice Age" and the "Younger Dryas" period among others). There are also ice core data from the Vostok Antarctic ice and two equatorial glaciers as well as tree ring data from numerous species of trees around the world (the longest databank on tree rings is on European Oak -- 10,000 years of continuous tree rings from thousands of overlapping specimens) and there is even annual growth data of coral heads and others ... (there is work being done on foraminifera which have a continuous fossil record going back 100 million years -- past the K-T boundary btw -- they form sedimentary layers on the ocean floor and they show climatological change as well -- including the K-T boundary)And these actual annual layer counting methods have been correlated to at least one radioactive decay method with errors on the order of 1 to 2% over the whole course of their, well within the margins of error.They pretty much show that the radiometric methods are 'bang on' for the periods where they can be verified. If any C'ist is going to propose that they break down beyond that then (1) they better not be YEC (you're at 567,700 years and counting) and (2) they better have a mechanism that affects each method equally and be able to demonstrate it experimentally.I suggest some good reading for concerned christians can be found at:
Radiometric Dating - A Christian Perspective
Radiometric DatingEnjoy.

ahaahahaaanot that sensitive.I was joking about the colors -- which ones are crazy so I could use the rest ...

Nice chart -- do you have an url for it so I can use it on other forums?Wasn't it the overwhelming evidence of sedimentary layers that convinced Charles Lyell of the extreme age of the earth?see thread
EvC Forum: Charles Lyell (in America) Bookand book
Amazon - Lyell in America: Transatlantic Geology, 1841-1853 (click)

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From Book News, Inc.
Charles Lyell was a pioneering 19th-century geologist, and Charles Darwin's mentor. During his travels throughout America, he looked for evidence to confirm his theory of the uniformity of geological history, and made insightful observations about American society and the continent's regional differences. This study blends detailed scientific observations with colorful travelogue to chronicle his travels, and draws on previously unpublished letters and journals as well as Lyell's published writings. Includes b&w illustrations. Book News, Inc., Portland, OR

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They would not have indicated absolute age, but implied it....

Thanks -- bookmarked.

in round numbers for ease of assimilation:by tree rings 10,000 yearsby algae layers 45,000 yearsby ice cores 200,000 years (Vostok)by calcite layers 567,700 years (Devils hole) (see message 4 in current lineup -- was #3?)

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this was reply to prophex's post
EvC Forum: Greenland Ice Cores[This message has been edited by AbbyLeever, 03-18-2004]

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand

try redoing the graph and allow a polynomial -- I'll be the slope would match current speed (looking at the graph it looks like it would be concave upwards) and you would get a better fit. a progressive change in speed would not be unusual.

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand

Last I heard it was 4.55 billion years old +/- 2%The point of the layers is that the ages are not based on any scientific theories, just counts. That they corroborate the measurements made by means that are based on theory (ie - all radiometric methods) means that the theories behind those measurements are validated for general use in dating other objects -- like the full age of the earth.Any C'ist that would argue that they cannot be extended beyond the validating data would have to show what mechanism would change the theoretical results, ie - why would the rate of radioactive decay suddenly change?Of course YEC's are SOL with the data from the lake algae, let alone the calcite layers. Someone mentioned Evo's being afraid of YECers a while back ... humorous.

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand

ahahahahaaaaat that level of nit-pick, getting out of bed in the morning and expecting your feet to touch the floor is based on theory.

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand

The key is in numerous corroborations by multiple different systems. I will be finishing an essay on this topic that is in some depth soon, that I have borrowed some information from for this discussion.

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand