Exposing the evolution theory. Part 2

Kleinman:

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You should really include the links to those papers since ...

AZPaul3:

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I would give due deference to legitimate science papers presented by competent intellectuals but I will not give such respect to your errant misrepresentations of bogus data and bogus conclusions.

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If AZPaul3 could recognize legitimate science he could explain how drug resistance evolves and why cancer treatments fail but sadly he can't. And what he calls legitimate science can't explain how the Kishony and Lenski biological evolutionary experiments work.

Kleinman:

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The basic science and mathematics of random mutation and natural selection. -Kleinman
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The mathematics of random mutation and natural selection for multiple simultaneous selection pressures and the evolution of antimicrobial drug resistance. - Kleinman​​

AZPaul3:

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CAUTION: The listed papers above are considered to be bogus, filled with incorrect math and inappropriate conclusions.
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The reader is advised to disregard their content as well as their author.

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Since AZPaul3 can't recognize legitimate science, here are the papers he won't list that explain how drug resistance evolves and why cancer treatments fail.
For a single selection pressure:
The basic science and mathematics of random mutation and natural selection
And for multiple simultaneous selection pressures:
The mathematics of random mutation and natural selection for multiple simultaneous selection pressures and the evolution of antimicrobial drug resistance
And as a bonus, here is a short presentation video that explains how to combine the mathematics of biological competition with the mathematics of descent with modification and adaptation to a single selection pressure (the Lenski Long Term Evolution Experiment).
The Lenski Long Term Evolution Experiment
Find any errors in the math or bogus conclusions if you can. But since AZPaul3 can't explain how drug resistance evolves or why cancer treatments fail, or explain how the Kishony and Lenski biological evolutionary experiments work, he may make his post as he tries to cope with his burst bubble.

AZPaul3:

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CAUTION: The Kleinman papers listed above are considered to be bogus, filled with incorrect math and inappropriate conclusions.
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The reader is advised to disregard their content as well as their author.

Kleinman:

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But since AZPaul3 can't explain how drug resistance evolves or why cancer treatments fail, or explain how the Kishony and Lenski biological evolutionary experiments work, he may make his post as he tries to cope with his burst bubble.

AZPaul3:

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Your papers show and explain no such things. They are bogus.
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How many forum sites have you been kicked off? A dozen? Your winning personality is part of that, I'm sure, but mostly it's because your stuff is crap. No one believes you, Kleinman.
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And, no, I will not now explain genetics, resistance or other people's work to you since you haven't been able to comprehend corrections from ... from how many sites have you been banned?

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AZPaul3 can't explain the evolution of drug resistance or why cancer treatments fail, or explain the Kishony and Lenski biological evolutionary experiments and neither can biologists and he wants to shut done the discussion when the correct explanation of biological evolution is given. Here are the lists of links which AZPaul3 can't explain because they burst his bubble.
For a single selection pressure:
The basic science and mathematics of random mutation and natural selection
And for multiple simultaneous selection pressures:
The mathematics of random mutation and natural selection for multiple simultaneous selection pressures and the evolution of antimicrobial drug resistance
And as a bonus, here is a short presentation video that explains how to combine the mathematics of biological competition with the mathematics of descent with modification and adaptation to a single selection pressure (the Lenski Long Term Evolution Experiment).
The Lenski Long Term Evolution Experiment
Shut it down if you can AZPaul3 but the physical and mathematical facts have come out that explains how biological evolution works. And these facts burst your bubble. Taq and dwise1 know it but they are having a hard time as well because it burst their bubble as well.

Kleinman:

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203,000 retroviral infections to a germ cell line and the lineage does just fine is part of your belief system.

Taq:

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It's an observed fact as detailed in the 2001 human genome paper.

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Taq, you have lost the ability to be a critical thinker. Let's see if it can be brought back.Tell us what the genetic structure of a virus is, for example, HIV and tell us if multicellular replicators have any similar types of genetic structures.

Kleinman:

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You won't unless you post my papers because biologists have failed to explain these experiments.

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Taq:

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I already explained them here:
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EvC Forum: Rebuttal To Creationists - "Since We Can't Directly Observe Evolution..."

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When are you going to publish your findings since Kishony and Lenski haven't explained mathematically either of their experiment? In particular, they don't explain why it takes a billion replications for each adaptive mutation.

Kleinman:

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Now, here are the papers that explain descent with modification and adaptation that explain the evolution of drug resistance and why cancer treatments fail. They also give the mathematical explanation of the Kishony and Lenski biological evolutionary experiments (if you include the mathematical explanation for biological competition for the Lenski experiment. Here are the links to those papers:
For a single selection pressure:
The basic science and mathematics of random mutation and natural selection
And for multiple simultaneous selection pressures:
The mathematics of random mutation and natural selection for multiple simultaneous selection pressures and the evolution of antimicrobial drug resistance
And one you left out which explains the mathematics of the Lenski experiment:
The Lenski Long Term Evolution Experiment

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Study those links and learn something about the mathematics of biological evolution.

Taq:

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"A stubborn man can't change his mind and won't change the subject."--Winston Churchill

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Any stubbornness that I might have is nothing compared to the centuries of stubbornness that biologists have had in their misinterpretation of biological evolution. Why do you cling so stubbornly to this physically and mathematically irrational belief, universal common descent?

Kleinman:

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What do you call a person that doesn't believe that God exists?

Taq:

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They would not be a Jew, Christian, or Muslim.
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If you are talking about someone who doesn't believe in any deities, that would be an atheist. A = without, theism=believe in deities. A-theism is without a belief in deities.

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It seems like that definition is different than the one you gave previously. So, which of your definitions of atheism applies to you?

Kleinman:

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Shut it down if you can AZPaul3 but the physical and mathematical facts have come out that explains how biological evolution works.

AZPaul3:

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And no one else on the planet has figured out how all this works. Only you.
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Charlatan.

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Somebody had to do it, biologists certainly haven't explained how drug resistance evolves and why cancer treatments fail or how the Kishony and Lenski experiments work.

Kleinman:

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Somebody had to do it, biologists certainly haven't explained how drug resistance evolves and why cancer treatments fail or how the Kishony and Lenski experiments work.

AZPaul3:

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Yes, we are familiar with your demented ravings and your arrogance as a religious lone wolf fighting against the demons of reality. No one believes you.
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All the smart guys in the field know a hell of a lot more than you. Hell, the vast majority of them never heard of you or your asinine notions. That's how much knowledge you bring to the world. Science rejects your psychotic stupidity.
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You are a demoniac charlatan.

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AZPaul3 doesn't believe in God but he does believe in demons. You are very confused as well as being mathematically incompetent. There is a mathematical reason that it takes a billion replications for each adaptive step in the Kishony and Lenski biological evolutionary experiments, and it is the same mathematical reason that three-drug combination therapy works for the treatment of HIV. You and biologists have failed to understand the scientific reason for this.

Kleinman:

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You and biologists have failed to understand the scientific reason for this.

AZPaul3:

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So says the ignorant charlatan.

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So, I'm no longer demonic? Why would you want to contribute to the deaths of millions of people with drug-resistant infections and failed cancer treatments? Maybe you are the demonic one.

Kleinman:

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It seems like that definition is different than the one you gave previously.

Taq:

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It isn't different. An atheist is someone who lacks a belief in deities. It does not require the additional belief that no deities exist. Some atheists do believe that no deities exist, but some atheists simply lack a belief in deities but can't rule out their possible existence.

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So you don't know whether a deity exists or not.

Kleinman:

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Tell us what the genetic structure of a virus is, for example, HIV and tell us if multicellular replicators have any similar types of genetic structures.

Taq:

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A generic retroviral genome looks like this:

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Multicellular replicators have insertions of these retroviral genomes in their genome. They are easily recognizable as retroviral genomes and LTRs from retroviruses. The 4-6 bases of host DNA at either end of the viral genome for full length insertions is also a dead give away because those are created during insertion of the retroviral genome.

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Guess what we see with ERVs? We see those host DNA repeats. That means ERVs are the result of viral integration.

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Not only that, we can reconstruct active retroviruses from ERVs by using a consensus sequence of ERVs.

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quote:

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Human Endogenous Retroviruses are expected to be the remnants of ancestral infections of primates by active retroviruses that have thereafter been transmitted in a Mendelian fashion. Here, we derived in silico the sequence of the putative ancestral “progenitor” element of one of the most recently amplified family—the HERV-K family—and constructed it. This element, Phoenix, produces viral particles that disclose all of the structural and functional properties of a bona-fide retrovirus, can infect mammalian, including human, cells, and integrate with the exact signature of the presently found endogenous HERV-K progeny.
Identification of an infectious progenitor for the multiple-copy HERV-K human endogenous retroelements - PMC

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You haven't fully answered the question, do multicellular replicators have any genetic structures like viruses? Obviously, viruses have their own particular viral proteins such as reverse transcriptases and proteases as in HIV. How about non-protein coding portions of the viral genome that take control of the host cell to reproduce more viruses rather than the host cell carrying on its own metabolic processes? Does the host genetic structure have a similar genetic structure to the virus? Does the host cell genetic structure have repeated sequences of DNA that are not due to a viral insertion? And have the unique viral proteins been identified in the claimed 203,000 viral infections you claim our ancestors have had and been passed to us?

Kleinman:

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Any stubbornness that I might have is nothing compared to the centuries of stubbornness that biologists have had in their misinterpretation of biological evolution.

Taq:

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We hear the same thing from Flat Earthers. They also have their one or two papers that they trot out and can't speak on anything else.

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Are you going to post a link to a thread in this forum where you explain how drug resistance evolves and why cancer treatments fail? You should publish what you are claiming. You might as well tell Kishony and Lenski how their experiments work since you have figured out how descent with modification and adaptation works.

Theodoric:

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No one does.

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Atheists seem to think that they know. Do you want to tell us what evidence they have to make their assertion?

Kleinman:

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You haven't fully answered the question, do multicellular replicators have any genetic structures like viruses?

Taq:

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Vertebrates do have DNA sequences in their genome that are like viruses because they came from viruses.

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Are you claiming that all vertebrate DNA sequences that have similarities to viral sequences came from insertions of viruses?

Kleinman:

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How about non-protein coding portions of the viral genome that take control of the host cell to reproduce more viruses rather than the host cell carrying on its own metabolic processes?

Taq:

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The viral promoters are specific to viruses.

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How do viruses cause vertebrate cells to initiate the transcription of viral proteins?

Kleinman:

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And have the unique viral proteins been identified in the claimed 203,000 viral infections you claim our ancestors have had and been passed to us?

Taq:

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About 90% of human ERV's are solo LTR's due to homologous recombination, as mentioned earlier. Again, these LTR's are specific to viruses, and we know where they come from. The other 10% still have parts of the coding regions from the original provirus.

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Are you saying that the DNA sequences that code for the viral proteins have not been identified in their entirety, only fragments? How about in koalas infected by a retrovirus, have those DNA sequences been identified?In your previous post, Message 787, you said the following:

Taq:

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Guess what we see with ERVs? We see those host DNA repeats. That means ERVs are the result of viral integration.

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Are the only DNA replications seen in vertebrates due to ERVs? Why are DNA repeats identifiable but the protein-coding portions of viral insertions are only seen in fragments?

Kleinman:

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So you don't know whether a deity exists or not.

Taq:

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I don't believe any deities exist which makes me an atheist.
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I also don't believe that Bigfoot exists. At the same time, I can't say with 100% certainty that Bigfoot doesn't exist, but I have yet to see any compelling evidence that Bigfoot does exist, so I don't believe that Bigfoot exists. The same with deities.

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What percent certainty do you say that any deities don't exist? And what is your evidence for this claim?