A Way to Think About Free Will and God: Open Theism

As far as I'm aware everyone agrees that the bible was written by people writing about god at that time. Yes, and? No it wouldn't. In todays world we have the world's press and the international court of human rights, NATO and a myriad of other global bodies watching and recording. If you mean it's totally imaginary, I agree.

That's an understatement. At least in 'humane' warfare there IS a losing side. In god's warfare he approves of and promotes mass annihilation and genocide. Right, almost as if he didn't exist you mean? Let's be clear here, you think this is ok? Yeh, like I say, almost as if he didn't exist isn't it? The tricky bit is that Faith's god is your god. She just reads the words, you re-interpret the words to make them not mean what they say. It's difficult for you because the words are explicit, they don't lend themselves to 'interpretation' do they?

I fail to see why you find that impressive - it's a statement of the blindingly obvious that moves no-one nowhere. Yeh, but you're not a Deist, you're a Christian so you are required to believe what is said in the bible. But the bible says stuff you absolutely don't believe is right and moral - I hope. Sure, but why is that not really obvious? Yup. But god existing and not existing is the same thing. No one knows nor can know. That's fine but if all you're going to do is sit at the feet of the master, you're wasting your nervous energy.

So long as he's not that nightmare of a god in your book, sure. A real god with real moral values would be a pretty cool dude. If that was possible he's no god. For me it's a trivial hobby, for you it seems more like life, death and your soul. I worry for you.

And yet here it is:

quote:

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12 The Lord your God is giving you towns to live in. But suppose you hear something bad about one of those towns. 13 You hear that people who cause trouble have appeared among you. They’ve tried to get the people of their town to do something wrong. They’ve said, Let’s go and worship other gods. But you haven’t known anything about those gods before. 14 So you must ask people some questions. You must check out the matter carefully. If it’s true, an evil thing has really happened among you. It’s something the Lord hates. 15 Then you must certainly kill with your swords everyone who lives in that town. You must destroy it completely. You must wipe out its people and livestock. 16 You must gather all the goods of that town into the middle of the main street. You must burn the town completely. You must burn up everything in it. It’s a whole burnt offering to the Lord your God. The town must remain a pile of stones forever. It must never be built again. 17 Don’t keep anything that should be destroyed. Then the Lord will turn away from his great anger. He will show you mercy. He’ll have deep concern for you. He’ll cause there to be many of you. That’s what he promised your people of long ago. He gave his word when he made the promise. 18 The Lord your God will do those things if you obey him. I’m giving you his commands today. And you must obey all of them. You must do what is right in his eyes.

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All of the bible is human writing isn't it? I agree they're making it up. As is the rest of the book. But tell me, how much of the bible would remain if everything not actually reported as verbatum God was removed?

So now we have it that when anyone but god is speaking directly we can consider it as men making stuff up. And what is being said is intended for an audience of 1st century Jews - or earlier - and is therefore not for us. Committing genocide was ok then but not now.So what we have here is an unreliable book that was written for, and to be understood by, stone age people. with moral values that flex over time. Right, so much for the universal word of god.

Two fictional books don't make a non-fictional book.

Pastor ICANT could show you your arse and call it Christmas pudding and you'd believe him.This stuff is childish Phat, it's a perpetual surprise to me that you can take it in anyway seriously. It's such obvious drivel. God created Satan to give us choice? How old are you?

Which god? Your god yes, it's an obvious fabrication. A desitic kind of god isn't quite as dumb. You can cease to doubt. Obviously this isn't something that bothers me in the slightest, but according to your hero ICANT it doesnt matter how decent a life I lead, I'm going to hell. Don't you have a problem with that? Uh? How would anybody know how much we're destined to learn? Does that sentence actually have a real world meaning? Sure, I'll take you fishing, it'll take your mind off this crap. But do you have a passport?

How can it be different, that's all you have? You can't have a relationship with a book. The relationship you guys talk of is like the relationship some children have with their imaginary friend. It seems real to them but the adults know they'll grow out of it.

Who's pastor ICANT to tell you that your belief is real? I'm the devil on your other shoulder. And btw, your belief is real; what you believe in isn't. I'd rather you did something useful. Your grovelling to that hopeless fake is demeaning. You know I said you couldn't offend me? Well your kowtowing to that charlatan comes very close.

With the exception of the personal delusions called revelations, all that anybody thinks that they know about Jesus is in the book. Where else could it come from?

The entire Christian belief system hangs on the historical reality of the resurrection. Without that your case - such that it is - collapses.

You're confused as usual Phat.Christianity is built on the claim of the resurrection. It's claimed to be a real historical fact not an analogy or a metaphor. Should that claim be disproven, Christainity is disproven.What people that call themselves Christians believe is quite another issue. No doubt they would continue to believe whatever they believe now and you'll have people like GDR shifting his ground to include the metaphor.