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Author | Topic: Brexit - Should they stay or should they go? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
Corbyn’s going ahead with it. Plaid Cymru, the SNP, the Lib Dem’s and the Greens are trying to turn it into a full vote of No Confidence in the government. If they can pull that off, everything is up in the air.
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caffeine Member (Idle past 1054 days) Posts: 1800 From: Prague, Czech Republic Joined: |
If Corbyn has brought a No Confidence vote against the Government, winning would have brought down the government and probably lead to a General Election. A Parliamentary vote of No Confidence in the Prime Minister, though, is just theatre. It makes a point about just how unpopular May is in Parliament, but that is it. I'm quite confused by this concept of a non-binding, symbolic vote of no confidence in the PM. Has such a thing ever happened before? Surely, if Parliament votes no confidence in the PM, then the PM must resign. This is the basis of the British constitution, that the Prime Minister must be able to command a majority in the House of Commons.
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Diomedes Member Posts: 996 From: Central Florida, USA Joined: |
Appears the government is now taking precautionary measures in lieu of a potential No Deal Brexit:
quote: Brexit: Cabinet 'ramps up' no-deal planning - BBC News Definitely no boding well at this stage. I guess the rubber will really hit the road after the vote on May's deal. If it fails, which is likely, the only real options left are No Deal, an extension of the Article 50 deadline, or another referendum. And there is massive divisiveness for all those options.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
caffeine writes:
That certainly is not the case in Canada. We have had minority governments fairly often and some people would argue that they are better than majority governments. This is the basis of the British constitution, that the Prime Minister must be able to command a majority in the House of Commons. As for a non-confidence vote against the Prime Minister, that would not be done in our Parliament. It would have to wait for a scheduled leadership review outside Parliament - and anybody lobbying against the Prime Minister would be subject to party discipline, including expulsion from the caucus.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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NosyNed Member Posts: 9004 From: Canada Joined: |
I am not sure but I think you are wrong. If there was a minority government and the totality of the non-goverment parties voted against a confidence motion (like the budget, or an unspecific motion of confidence or I-don't-know-what-else) then the governor general will collapse the current government. She/he may as the other parties if they can form a coalition to govern but more likely an election will be called.
If government members broke ranks and brought down the government I am sure they would be expelled but it could happen. But that would trigger and election too I think.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
To the best of my knowledge it hasn’t been done before - and why would anyone do that when a No Confidence vote can bring down the government instead ? Forcing the governing party to change leaders also seems weird. And ripe for manipulation by malcontents in that party.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
NosyNed writes:
Yes, but that is not what I was talking about. I was talking about the PM's own party voting non-confidence. Here, that would not be done in Parliament. If there was a minority government and the totality of the non-goverment parties voted against a confidence motion (like the budget, or an unspecific motion of confidence or I-don't-know-what-else) then the governor general will collapse the current government.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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caffeine Member (Idle past 1054 days) Posts: 1800 From: Prague, Czech Republic Joined: |
That certainly is not the case in Canada. We have had minority governments fairly often and some people would argue that they are better than majority governments. A minority government still needs to command a majority in the Commons - it just means that some of that majority are not members of government parties. That is exactly the situation in the UK right now - May's is a minority government; but it can command a majority in Parliament due to the so-called 'confidence and supply' deal with the DUP. The DUP are outside government, but they agreed they would vote with the government on confidence motions and budgets (losing a budget vote is treated as an implied vote of no confidence in the government). We have the same situation here in the Czech Republic, where the government coalition is 8 seats sort of a majority and so struck a deal with the Communists to ensure a majority in the Chamber of Deputies (equivalent of the Commons). I don't think it's different in Canada, I think we're just differing in terminology..
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caffeine Member (Idle past 1054 days) Posts: 1800 From: Prague, Czech Republic Joined: |
Yes, but that is not what I was talking about. I was talking about the PM's own party voting non-confidence. Here, that would not be done in Parliament. Nor in the UK. The Tory party's no confidence vote was their own thing outside Parliament. Probably done in a smoky room with brandy involved. Internal party matters are their own affair - there are no constitutional or legal constraints on how they pick leaders. It's just the Tory party rules. What PaulK's talking about is not an internal party thing. The opposition seem to be proposing a formal vote of no confidence in the Commons which would be non-binding and thus not really be a formal no-confidence vote. Sounds like a bunch of fuckwits wanking over a biscuit to me. If they think the government should resign and think they can force it, then they should do so. If they don't, then they should stop pissing about and do something constructive.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
caffeine writes:
Then why did PaulK call it a "Parliamentary" vote of non-confidence in Message 360? Surely what you're talking about would be a party vote or a caucus vote. The Tory party's no confidence vote was their own thing outside Parliament.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9514 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
caffeine writes: Sounds like a bunch of fuckwits wanking over a biscuit to me. If they think the government should resign and think they can force it, then they should do so. If they don't, then they should stop pissing about and do something constructive. That's about it. It would be a waste of time even if it resulted in a no cofidence outcome, but it won't, it's defeated before it starts. The conservatives aren't going to vote against their party. Corbyn is a disingenous twat - he's refusing to tell the electorate where he stands. That's very damaging for him but he's buggered either way because everyone knows he wants out.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
The Tories had their No Confidence vote. May won, they can’t try again for another year. That’s what caffeine was talking about.
Jeremy Corbyn, the leader of the opposition wants Parliament to take a vote of No Confidence in the Prime Minister - but not the government. Which is basically there to rub May’s unpopularity in her face without having any other effects. So discontented Tories can vote for it, without having to worry about a General Election. It’s not going to happen, so it doesn’t matter anyway.
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Diomedes Member Posts: 996 From: Central Florida, USA Joined: |
That's about it. It would be a waste of time even if it resulted in a no cofidence outcome, but it won't, it's defeated before it starts. The conservatives aren't going to vote against their party. Corbyn is a disingenous twat - he's refusing to tell the electorate where he stands. That's very damaging for him but he's buggered either way because everyone knows he wants out. Seems like a lot of the politicians are being disingenuous. I remember watching a few videos of Jacob Rees-Mogg (sounds like a Harry Potter character btw) and in the one video, during the time of the no confidence vote enacted by the Conservatives, he was adamant that May needs to resign. The moment the Labour party tried the same thing, he said he would vote against it because his party comes first. Seems a little bipolar to me. But part in parcel with how politicians operate on both sides of the aisle. Here is a link to an article talking about his about-face: indy100 - 404 Not Found
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caffeine Member (Idle past 1054 days) Posts: 1800 From: Prague, Czech Republic Joined: |
Then why did PaulK call it a "Parliamentary" vote of non-confidence in Message 360? Surely what you're talking about would be a party vote or a caucus vote. Because they're two different things. The party no-confidence vote was last week. Now Corbyn's proposing a vote in Parliament, in an apparent attempt to embarrass the Tories without achieving anything. I'm thinking Corbyn's actually quite looking forward to Britain crashing out of the EU - he comes from the old left of the party who were always opposed to the whole project. But as Tangle says he's being mealy-mouthed about the whole thing. He wants to appeal to remainers by letting the Tories take the blame for Brexit while avoiding alienating pro-leave Labour voters by actually taking a position. Edited by caffeine, : No reason given.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
caffeine writes:
I know that. I'm just saying that in Canada a party vote would not happen in Parliament, which is why it would not be called a Parliamentary vote. Because they're two different things.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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