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Author Topic:   Are Viri (viruses?) Alive?
Silent H
Member (Idle past 5849 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 9 of 30 (82452)
02-03-2004 2:02 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by crashfrog
02-02-2004 11:08 PM


I'm actually replying to your earlier comment regarding viruses. I have to side with Ned that they are alive.
Your main problem, seems to be that they need other organisms to allow them to do what other organisms do on their own.
But I am not sure if that is the right way to look at it. How is that different from an organism needing a specific chemical environment to be able to do what it does?
The only difference seems to be that viruses need the nice chemical bath environments that cells generally provide (or else labs, which is what this later post was about).
In fact, bacteria end up acting like viruses when not in the correct environment and go dormant until they happen to get placed back into that environment.
How then can we really distinguish between the two (as far as "life" is concerned)?

holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by crashfrog, posted 02-02-2004 11:08 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by NosyNed, posted 02-03-2004 2:08 AM Silent H has not replied
 Message 11 by Mammuthus, posted 02-03-2004 3:18 AM Silent H has not replied
 Message 12 by crashfrog, posted 02-03-2004 3:26 AM Silent H has replied

  
Silent H
Member (Idle past 5849 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 17 of 30 (82590)
02-03-2004 12:40 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by crashfrog
02-03-2004 3:26 AM


quote:
Viri just don't do enough by themselves.
Those lazy good for nothing Viri!
Heheheh. While I see what you are saying, I think you have added a kind of hidden premise in your definition of life. Not that it is wrong, but it should be more out in the open for exploration.
It seems that you want "life" to be self-sufficient to some degree. Kind of like a snail or hermit crab, it carries it's home of proper chemical environment with it.
I am unsure why that should be the correct dividing line. I realize that property let's bacteria operate in a greater variety of exterior environments, and have a lot fewer dormant periods, but is that enough to separate one from the other?
The bacteria must still sit in environments that allow those Homes they carry around to keep being replenished, otherwise just like a virus it shuts down.
So maybe a way to look at it (the way I look at it anyway), they are both forms of life, but one kind has the ability to move around and stay active for longer periods, while the other sacrificed activity, for much greater endurance.
In a later post you ask how you can tell a virus is dead. I think it would be safe enough to say when it has been damaged enough that it can no longer function, given introduction to the proper chemical environment. That is essentially the same for bacteria that for all intents and purposes are "immortal" unless damaged by their environments.
Viri are much hardier than bacteria, though more restricted in their activity, requiring hosts to do what we would call living.
Wait a second, that sounds familar. Vampires!
Perhaps Viri should be classified as undead... never quite alive but never quite dead, unless obliterated.

holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by crashfrog, posted 02-03-2004 3:26 AM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by crashfrog, posted 02-03-2004 12:50 PM Silent H has replied

  
Silent H
Member (Idle past 5849 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 19 of 30 (82619)
02-03-2004 1:58 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by crashfrog
02-03-2004 12:50 PM


And they are never good are they? Evil undead things.
That would be a trip to suddenly reclassify virology as necromancy.

holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by crashfrog, posted 02-03-2004 12:50 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by crashfrog, posted 02-03-2004 2:12 PM Silent H has replied

  
Silent H
Member (Idle past 5849 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 23 of 30 (82736)
02-03-2004 5:03 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by crashfrog
02-03-2004 2:12 PM


quote:
I'm lobbying Hollywood to opt for more appropriate movie villians, like Nazis or those darn Ay-rabs.
Oh that's already firmly entrenched. Someone I know wrote a script which made it pretty high up the Hollywood chain to a big producer (of a VERY FAMOUS horror film series).
The script was an adaptation of a successful horror novel. The thing that ended up breaking the deal, was that the person I knew and the original author (of the book it was based on) refused to make a change (the only real change) that the producer insisted on.
For some reason he could not accept that the maniac running an island filled with horrors was not an arab. The producer eventually insisted that the only people capable of killing and raping other people were Arabs, and everything in the story (again based on a popular selling novel) had to be changed just to propagandize that the killer was an Arab.
... and before you ask, no the producer was not Buz.
Here's a way to accomplish your goal in Hollywood. Write a script where a doctor figures out a way to engineer a virus that will work on dead flesh, which as a biproduct reanimates the dead. Then tweak it that it is a Jewish doctor, who ends up reanimating the corpses of those killed in the Holocaust... or if you want something more timely, to those killed in suicide bombings.
The dead then go on to avenge themselves against either NeoNazis (American or European), or Arabs.
You will save both the image of viruses and the undead in one fell swoop.

holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by crashfrog, posted 02-03-2004 2:12 PM crashfrog has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Peter, posted 02-04-2004 6:41 AM Silent H has not replied

  
Silent H
Member (Idle past 5849 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 29 of 30 (83040)
02-04-2004 1:46 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by Peter
02-04-2004 8:21 AM


quote:
It was just that in Resident Evil: Apocalypse the umbrella corporation has a beauty product that regenerates dead skin cells and ....
Yeah but the dead don't come back as the good guys do they? That was my little twist on it.
quote:
Not seen 28 Days later ... just seemed like an Omega Man rip-off to me
Ahem, and Omega Man was original? I believe it was preceded by a little something called "I am Legend."

holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Peter, posted 02-04-2004 8:21 AM Peter has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by Peter, posted 02-05-2004 4:50 AM Silent H has not replied

  
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