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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Fake polls, fake news | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Percy Member Posts: 22508 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.4
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There's been a lot of disagreement about the videos, but though I'm not moderating this thread it's worth noting that there's little clarity about what the evidence in the videos is. Videos are like links and excerpts and shouldn't appear by themselves. They should be accompanied by arguments and evidence in one's own words. For videos longer than maybe a half minute or so, times for the relevant information should be provided.
--Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22508 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.4 |
Since no supporters of Trump's claims of "fake news" are offering any actual evidential support I thought I'd help them out by conducting a brief review of this article from today's New York Times: Trump Offers Up a More Hopeful Vision. I'll be looking to see if the article contains any biased or fake portions.
quote: Given the chaotic immigration ban and the fear he's sowed in the immigrant community, the concerns he's sparked in NATO, the insults to foreign cities, countries and heads of state, and the confusion he's caused about health care, tumultuous seems a more than fair characterization of the Trump presidency thus far. It must at least be agreed that his presidency has been very non-traditional.
quote: Mentioning immigration compromise in his briefing with news anchors and then leaving it out of his SOTU address certainly does raise questions.
quote: The SOTU address was much clearly more optimistic than the inaugural with its many dark references to stealing and carnage and the red blood of patriots and ravages and destruction and terrorism and so forth.
quote: This seems an accurate assessment.
quote: This is a clearly biased paragraph that goes well beyond factual reporting to make comparisons with the previous president who faced far more urgent economic problems than those faced today and so had to move rapidly.
quote: This is just referring to the differences of opinion among Republicans on health care, ranging from complete repeal of Obamacare without replacement all the way to keeping much of it.
quote: This seems an unnecessary jab at a time when the president has just taken a very positive step toward a more traditional and presidential style.
quote: Characterizing policy differences within the administration as "war" seems unnecessarily harsh. There's much more in the article, of course, but those were the parts that I thought could be challenged as biased. They was not, as far as I could tell, any fake or incorrect information in the article. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22508 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.4 |
Rrhain writes: You mean you don't know? The order is not merely to "deport criminals." Instead, it is to deport anybody "charged." It's important to note that the original order applied to everyone from those seven countries, including those with green cards. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22508 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.4 |
Faith writes: Oh I'm not particularly bothered by the word "tumultuous" but blaming on him what is really media-generated tumult,... The entire media, including the outlets you like, reported on these things. The tumult in the Trump administration is caused by Trump himself. Reporting events is a result of the events, not a cause of them. You've got it backwards.
I'm not up to reading your whole post right now I'm afraid so the above is just my initial reaction. Gee, too bad, you missed the portions I thought biased. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22508 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.4
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Faith writes: I see I can't answer the rest of your post because I didn't hear the speech. Comments I've heard today -- not a lot of that even -- are quite positive about it, and the NYT account is even pretty positive for them. I think you've mistaken the purpose of my post. It was to neither complement nor criticize Trump, but to take the lead article from a mainstream media outlet and review it for bias and fake news. I found two instances of mild bias and no instances of fake or false news. But I agree that there was a great deal about the speech to be positive about. Trump delivered a traditional, presidential and largely successful and positive SOTU address.
I will mention one of the biggest gripes I have about media coverage these days, the word "undocumented" for illegal aliens, and leaving off the term "illegal" from "immigrants." That's deep-dyed fake news IMO. The term "undocumented" is used when it is more accurate. For someone discovered without documentation, "undocumented" is a fact while "illegal" is a possibly incorrect conclusion. It's like the term "alleged perpetrator" that police use because they're talking prior to establishment of any guilt or innocence.
Speaking of illegal immigration, I have nothing against developing a pathway to legality for those who deserve it. Maybe Trump didn't bring it up in the speech because he hasn't had time to think it through. The idea appeared to spring off the top of his head during a meeting with news anchors, so it's very likely true that he hasn't had time to think it through, nor vet it with his staff or the relevant agencies, which he should have done before even mentioning it. Poor impulse control. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22508 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.4 |
While we continue to wait for actual examples of "fake news" from the mainstream media, here as potential candidates are the top few headlines from today's New York Times:
If anyone finds anything "fake" in any of these articles please bring it the thread's attention. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22508 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.4 |
Faith writes: NoNukes writes: No, your lack of awareness does not leave Obama as the source. Isn't it quite obvious that your own ignorance has no effect on reality? I've often wondered how you ever got to be a lawyer with your logic handicap. The error in logic is all yours, but could you perhaps divert time from issuing spurious insults to providing some support for your contention that the mainstream media is "fake news"? So far what we mostly have is that if Trump and Faith don't like it, it's fake. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22508 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.4 |
Rrhain writes: I think you're confusing the new policy regarding deportation of immigrants with the Muslim ban. Nope.
You're trying to find the fleck of gold in the mountain of excrement. You're trying to make a single characterization fit everything Trump does. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22508 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.4
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Faith writes: Percy writes: The error in logic is all yours, but could you perhaps divert time from issuing spurious insults to providing some support for your contention that the mainstream media is "fake news"? The insult is not spurious... Of course the insult was spurious, and unnecessary and against the Forum Guidelines.
...and no to your question. If you're not going to defend the main premise of your thread that the mainstream media is "fake news", then what is the point?
You've said enough offensive stuff to deserve tp be ignored. I haven't said anything offensive. You just find the truth offensive.
It was obviously not my ignorance of Trump's actions that left Obama as the source of the actions and to twist it into that is just another insult to ME that I'm rightly objecting to. It's obvious to everyone else here that you spoke out of ignorance. Reality isn't what you make up in your own mind. When you make a mistake, own up to it. By the way, I'm curious, how is it that you're able to read the black on white lettering of news outlets when it's something you post yourself (like the opinion piece you just linked to in Message 518, Trump ignored first rule of crisis management come clean and he’s paying the price), but not anything anybody else posts? Since virtually all news outlets post black on white lettering, how do you read any news at all? Perhaps this explains why you seem unaware of so much. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22508 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.4 |
This morning Trump tweeted that "122 vicious prisoners, released by the Obama Administration from Gitmo, have returned to the battlefield." Just one problem: most of those former Gitmo prisoners were released by George W. Bush. Read all about it: Trump hits Obama again, this time with false claims about Gitmo detainees
Probably Trump read something misleading at Breitbart again and then put fingers in gear without thinking or checking. One has to wonder how many of his opinions are based upon false beliefs. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22508 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.4
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The most recent jobs report was very positive, and Trump tweeted enthusiastically about it: "Great news. We are only just beginning. Together, we are going to #MAGA [Make America Great Again]!"
But up until his inauguration Trump dismissed the job reports as "totally fiction." See a list of the many times he has deprecated the jobs report as meaningless: 19 times Trump called jobs numbers ‘fake’ before they made him look good Once again Trump makes clear that his definition of fake news is any report not favorable to him. Whether its true or not (and so far the evidence is that it *is* true when it's from a major news outlet like the New York Times, Washington Post, ABC, NBC, CBS, etc.) doesn't matter to him. He's a propagandist of the first rank. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22508 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.4 |
No evidence of fake or false news by the mainstream media was identified in this thread. Obviously Trump's accusations of "fake news" only apply to news not favorable to him.
Concerning polls, a recent Gallup poll had Trump at his lowest approval rating yet of 37%, and the Rasmussen poll that tracks a different demographic group has tracked the Gallup poll, dropping to 45% at roughly the same time. Trump's approval rating is slowly recovering from his disastrous last week - yesterday Gallup was at 39% and Rasmussen was at 50%. There seems nothing fake nor fraudulent about either poll. --Percy
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