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Author | Topic: Gun Control Again | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Theodoric Member Posts: 9207 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.4 |
But don't you know that the 2nd Amendment exists independent and without context to the rest of the Constitution.
#2Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9207 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.4
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First part of my answer was tongue in cheek. Just in case some people didn't get that.
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9207 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.4
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People might go crazy with knives, bats, vehicles or any other object that is potentially lethal as well.
This has been addressed numerous times. How about you do something else rather than just constantly rinse and repeat?
It seems obvious to me that your main goal is to ban guns from being privately owned.
You keep bringing up this strawman and are being constantly told you are building a strawman. That you are constantly using this tactic seems to show you have no argument.
If that is not the goal, then what other measures would you like to see in place?
In order to constructively participate in a thread you have to read what people actually write not what you want them to have written. Your question has been addressed numerous times. How about you read the thread and address the measures that have been presented numerous times? When you have no argument maybe you should look at why you have no argument.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9207 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.4 |
Well, for starters, I wasn't talking to you. I addressed Percy.
And here it goes. I am extremely disappointed in the way you are framing things. You know how things go here. There is no one on one unless it is specifically requested. If someone pot something people don't agree with they will comment. Do you want me to research all the responses you have had to posts that were not directed at you?
Secondly, the only counter-argument that I've seen made is that those other items hold some kind of utility that makes it too important to ban.
Either your reading skills are not that good or you are selectively reading posts.
Around and around we go in circles until we get bored of trying to change the viewpoint of the other. It's the EvC way.
Not worth a response.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9207 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.4 |
Well, Theodoric is all kinds of pissy because apparently specific measures have been addressed multiple times. I haven't seen any specifics either
Pissy? Thin skin much?Personal attacks? Still? Specific measures have been proposed on this thread. Here I will even do the reading and research for you. Message 4585 This isn't the first and only specific proposals presented. RAZD writes: (1) make background checks universal to reduce availability to the insane, people with a criminal record or on the terrorist list. (2) require brief course of instruction by seller on the proper use, storage and handling of the gun. If private sale there needs to be a witness. (3) require insurance with photo ID card to be carried that covers misuse, mishap, accidental discharge, liability, etc etc etc. (4) charge anyone who lends or secretly sells a gun with aiding and abetting a crime if the gun is used in one. This should not be a problem for legitimate, rational people.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9207 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.4
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The only logical deduction is that there are other factors contributing to why some countries are plagued by violence and why some are not.
Like availability of ammunition for those guns? OK lets be like Switzerland. Own whatever gun you want, but all ammunition is highly regulated and all reloading components are highly regulated. Does that work for you? The point you keep missing and this last post totally exposes this, is that the call is not for banning of guns, but for more regulation. The regulation people like Percy are calling for is common safety measures. Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given. Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9207 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.4 |
Is this an anecdote from personal experience or something you heard? I wonder how his department would feel about him making such a statement to Boy Scouts. Such cowboy attitudes about guns are part of the problem.
It is a chilling sound when you know what it is. As I gun owner I do not find the sound chilling at all. I wonder in what situations would a bad guy with a gun hear the sound and be affected by it. Your hypothetical standoff story sounds ridiculous.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9207 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.4 |
I would debate that a .17 is way more deadly than a .22. On larger animals the high speed makes it less deadly than a .22. A slow moving .22 would penetrate more and leave more energy deposited inside of the body, rather than the .17 which would expend most of its energy on initial impact leaving less energy deposited in the target. That it is why it is effective on smaller animals and why very small animals, like rabbits almost explode. It is not an effective hunting round for that reason, unless you consider varmint shooting, hunting.
That is one of the reasons in a wooded area or when hunting larger game a slow heavier bullet is more effective than a faster, smaller. I have two rifles for deer hunting one is a .30-30 which I use when I am in the woods and a 7mm-08 for when I am in my stand and have an open shot. In the woods I need a slower heavier round that will not be deflected or lose energy if it hits anything on the way to the deer. I have seen situations where the 7mm-08 round exploded when it hit a twig just in front of the deer. Luckily there was enough energy left in a couple of the shards to take out the arteries near the heart.The plus of the 7mm-08 is that at distances over 100 yards it is more accurate. Also at longer distances the .30-30 just does not retain much energy. A lot of your info on calibers is correct, but this was pretty egregiously incorrect.
For me personally, I wouldn't like a caliber limit that was less than .40. If someone is charging you then you want stopping power.
Cuz we all know thats gonna happen. You really should stop living in the movie world.If I hear the NRA mantra about stopping power one more time, I might lose it. Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9207 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.4 |
17 hmr, because when it hits my clothes it is going to disintegrate. The 22 will penetrate clothing and then expand as it enters the body, leaving a much larger energy deposit.
Deer and people are roughly same size. You are wrong about lethality of .17 hmr and humans.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9207 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.4 |
He enacted rules banning private ownership of arms
Not true. Under Nazi's laws on gun ownership were loosened, except for the jews. If you have evidence to the contrary, present it.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9207 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.4
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This new study debunks the whole "good guy with a gun" meme. Not surprisingly there seems to be no evidence to support the "good guy with a gun" myth. Guns are rarely used in self defense. Now before you ammosexuals make some claim of the deterrent effect, the study looks at that too.
quote:Self-Defense Gun Use is Rare, New VPC Study Confirms | Violence Policy Center Full study Now anyone have any scientific studies showing this study is incorrect? That is right, ammosexuals do not do or want scientific studies on gun violence.Blackout: How the NRA suppressed gun violence research Science? We don't need no stinkin' science.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9207 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.4 |
Are you going to address the study or just build more strawman arguments?
Are you going to ask the NRA to validate their claim that 2.5 million Americans use guns in self-defense against criminal attackers each year?Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9207 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.4 |
We are talking evidence Faith not anecdotes. You have a way of coming in and shitting all over threads, please do not do that here.
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9207 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.4 |
The NRA argument is that there are millions of examples that good guys with guns stop bad guys with a gun. This study shows that there are not millions of examples. Yes maybe I over sold the study. The point I was trying to make, albeit poorly, is that scientific studies show a different portrayal about guns than what the NRA is selling.
Thank you for calling me out on a poorly worded and poorly defended post.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9207 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.4
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Of course, the leftist ideology is in control of much of the media...
But alas, you have no data or evidence to back this upFacts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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