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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Why Do Gay Men Sound Gay? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined:
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Seems to me you have a tin ear if you don't recognize that as a gay voice. And it was so identified, too. And as I said it doesn't sound feminine to me, it is its own thing. And since it IS recognizable as gay it suggests there really aren't all that many varieties of it as someone here suggested. It's a camp voice. There is correlation with the gay community.
I can see how you could pick it up by hanging around the gay community but how many acquire it that way? I'd guess not many. And you still have to explain how it developed in the first place. I don't think anybody knows, but homosexuals were ostracized and groups that feel attacked from the outside tend towards adopting similar slang, dialects, and even inflection and intonation. Ostracized long enough and and the effect can be quite pronounced. Maybe there was a reason there was a leaning in the community towards that. Perhaps it comes from the theatre community. With their gregariuousness and campness, the thetre may have provided role models for the gay community whose performance also had a 'camp' tone. This might have meant consumers of this culture may have started to adopt some of the campy theatrical voices. It might be that some homosexuals found that by being a fearless and flaming homosexual they find that straight people tolerate their presence. Like they weren't viewed as a strange threat and more thought of as a jester.
Trying not to sound macho? OK, that's a theory. Indeed, it may be in this area. Some men are attracted to macho men, some men are turned off by this. It might have been a conscious method of subtly (at first) advertising they aren't a 'macho gay' while trying to find dating partners in a world filled with people they are attracted to who would beat them for asking them out.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 315 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
Oh, be nice.
Some gay men do in fact sound gay. Randall of "Honey Badger" fame comes to mind. And, as Faith points out, the Donald Gay Trump thing wouldn't work if this were not the case. Gay male speech - Wikipedia
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9207 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.4 |
Yes and some black men like watermelon. Some hispanics are lazy. Some hillbillys have sex with their sisters. Some asians are very good at math. Some gay men have a lisp.
All stereotypes. I can also say that some white men like watermelon. Some white people are lazy. Some wealthy men have sex with their sisters and some straight men have a lisp. Faith is perpetuating a stereotypical view of a group of people. This is just another example of the vile bigotry shown by Faith time and time again.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9207 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.4 |
Not hatred, disgust. Very different feelings. Hatred takes effort. You are not worth effort.
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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Phat Member Posts: 18354 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Some men may subconsciously adopt certain female speech patterns.
The Gay Voice At least these linguistics professors seem to think so. Add By Edit: I also found an interesting article in The New Yorker that provided some possible food for thought. Edited by Phat, : added jabberwockyChance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain
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Hyroglyphx Inactive Member |
Some gay men really do "sound gay" and to me it doesn't sound feminine as some claim, or like a "lisp" as some put it, it is its own thing. I was reminded of this by the post on the Humor thread of Trump speaking with a gay voice. Distinctively unmistakably gay. Here's an article about someone who made a documentary about it , how gay men try not to sound gay. But I don't think it really explains what it is in the first place and how it comes about. Curious what opinions you all have about it. Well, not all gay men talk like that. There are more effeminate one's than others, usually those are self-described within the gay community as Twinks. Others are very machismo and you would never know they are gay. As to how it developed, I don't know, but the continuation of it is probably the same as it is with accents. You speak how you are spoken to since people gravitate towards things they know. "Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
Seems to me you have a tin ear if you don't recognize that as a gay voice. I have not heard the 'gay voice' in question, but surely there is at least a 'stage' gay voice that we can expect will be taken on when someone is supposed to be identified as gay for one reason or another in some skit. Ok course some gay do take on that voice, and surely those that do are the origin of the stereotype. Given that the voice is an affectation, surely the most likely way it would be acquired would be hanging around other people who speak similarly. Why is that hard to believe? Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 315 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
Yes and some black men like watermelon. And if hardly any white men did, then it would be reasonable to wonder why.
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Hyroglyphx Inactive Member |
So one can "imprint" on those who they spend a great deal of time around and also those who are role models according to some of the films speech experts. This is one of the most common ways we as humans mimic the voices around us. Sometimes subconsciously and sometimes on purpose. I imagine it is something similar to how the prototypical "Valley Girl" (like, OMG!) mode of speech began, and more importantly, how it perpetuated. There are noticeable inflections and intonations when hearing Valley Girl speech. And people living abroad often pick up the accents for certain words. Obviously not uncommon. My best educated guess as to how Camp first developed was likely because gay adolescent boys first had an affinity for girls as platonic friends long before they fully sexually matured. Girls tend to be much more animated in their speech by using lots of facial expressions, hand movements, and inflections for certain words. It's very expressive. So since they spent so much time talking to females, it seems that they might have picked up tendencies commonly associated with females. The inverse tendencies could likely be said of butch-type lesbians. But this is definitely not the case with all lesbians or all gay men. "Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine
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Hyroglyphx Inactive Member
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Faith is perpetuating a stereotypical view of a group of people. This is just another example of the vile bigotry shown by Faith time and time again. For what it's worth, she sounded genuinely interested. You have to remember that she probably doesn't have much association with gay people because of their [to use Faith's words] "lifestyle." I don't think calling her a vile bigot when she's not acting like a vile bigot (at the moment) is going to help the walls come down... it'll probably actually build them up quicker and reinforce her beliefs. Just give her a little bit... After all, I'm sure there will be plenty of things to legitimately scorn her about at a later time! But for now, she seems genuinely interested. I think it might be a good opportunity to extend an olive branch, not a hand grenade. "Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9207 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.4 |
And if hardly any white men did, then it would be reasonable to wonder why.
Your response is not logical. It would presume that appreciable more gay men have this "voice" than straight men. I do not think facts would bear you out. Many straight men act and sound effeminate.Your bigotry is showing. Gay does not mean effeminate. I know quite a few gay people. I also know some effeminate sounding men. There are hardly more effeminate sound gay men then straight men in my experience. Some of the most masculine seeming men I know are gay and some of the most effeminate sounding men I know are straight. If you want to help perpetuate stereotypes that is your choice.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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Pressie Member Posts: 2103 From: Pretoria, SA Joined: |
Hyroglyphx writes: No. Worldview. Lots of fundamentalist religious people love the word 'worldview'. To lots of them a lifestyle is a worldview. For what it's worth, she sounded genuinely interested. You have to remember that she probably doesn't have much association with gay people because of their [to use Faith's words] "lifestyle." Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.
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Blue Jay Member (Idle past 2728 days) Posts: 2843 From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts Joined:
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Hi, Theodoric.
Theodoric writes: What is amazing is that your bigotry seems to know no bounds. What possessed you to think this was a topic worth discussing? You have a vile stereotype for everyone that is different than you. Crawl back under your rock. What possessed you to think that this response was proportionate to the offense? I thought we wanted to encourage asking questions as part of the process of tearing down walls and building bridges, and all that. We all harbor suspicions that Faith's question may be more than just innocent, idle curiosity; but letting yourself get all rankled at the very outset of a thread is only going to make it worse. Other posters seem to have been able to start a fruitful discussion on the topic, despite the potential undertone of bigotry in the opening post. Why not try that approach for once?-Blue Jay, Ph.D.* *Yeah, it's real Darwin loves you.
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Faith writes:
If they did a hillbilly voiceover of an American politician, would anybody notice the difference?
Did anybody go listen to that gay voiceover of Trump on the Humor thread?
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coffee_addict Member (Idle past 508 days) Posts: 3645 From: Indianapolis, IN Joined:
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Speaking as a gay guy partnered with another guy, the responses so far to the OP makes me not want to associate with the liberal PC crowd.
Faith asked a legit question. May be EvC should create a new section called "Safe Space"?If you say the word "gullible" slowly, it sounds like oranges. Go ahead and try it.
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