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Author Topic:   On the evolution of English as a written or spoken language.
MrHambre
Member (Idle past 1423 days)
Posts: 1495
From: Framingham, MA, USA
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 72 of 88 (760738)
06-25-2015 8:08 AM
Reply to: Message 69 by Jon
06-25-2015 7:48 AM


Uniculturalism
Jon writes:
This is part of the broader worldwide Multiculturalism movement. While the people themselves would rather be taught the languages that help them in the world, global hippies continue to push for 'education in the native tongue' and other oppressive policies that retard development, putting cultures over people, with their only upside being that they will, eventually, make sure these languages end up dead and buried (as their speakers desire) instead of preserved.
It seems to me to be the exact opposite of multiculturalism. It's imposing the English language on native speakers so they can compete in a world economy that's dominated by Western corporate interests.
I'd like to know what you mean by "putting cultures over people." Aren't cultures worth preserving? If economic expediency threatens the survival of communities, cultures, and language, doesn't that indicate a problem with globalist economics?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by Jon, posted 06-25-2015 7:48 AM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 73 by Jon, posted 06-25-2015 8:30 AM MrHambre has replied

  
MrHambre
Member (Idle past 1423 days)
Posts: 1495
From: Framingham, MA, USA
Joined: 06-23-2003


(1)
Message 74 of 88 (760752)
06-25-2015 10:06 AM
Reply to: Message 73 by Jon
06-25-2015 8:30 AM


Re: Uniculturalism
No one is 'imposing the English language'. People are dying to learn it.
They're not eager to learn English so they can read Shakespeare. They're doing it because (as they say in the movie linked in Phat's post) they prefer employment in tourist hotels to rural poverty.
Cultures don't matter. People matter. If the people don't want their culture, or some aspect of it, then let them throw it away and pick up something they like better.
Problem is, culture comes with people. And it sounds like you're defining culture in a very consumerist way, as if the shared history of a community is just like other any item you acquire and discard whenever the mood strikes you.
The people want European languages, and European languages will benefit them most. It's time to stop the nonsense of 'preserving culture' and start helping people.
Only it's not about helping them in postcolonial Africa, it's about exploiting them. It's not as if there's a level playing field or a power equilibrium. Europeans still call the shots, and you seem just fine with that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by Jon, posted 06-25-2015 8:30 AM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 75 by Jon, posted 06-25-2015 11:52 AM MrHambre has replied

  
MrHambre
Member (Idle past 1423 days)
Posts: 1495
From: Framingham, MA, USA
Joined: 06-23-2003


(2)
Message 76 of 88 (760763)
06-25-2015 12:29 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by Jon
06-25-2015 11:52 AM


Re: Uniculturalism
And because they can actually be educated in English since, you know, there're actually textbooks, research papers, and other educated people to talk to in English (and French, and German, and Spanish, and...).
It's disgusting that these people put their academic ideologies over the lives of real flesh and blood human beings.
Um, I was under the assumption that we were talking about the article in NPR and the accompanying video that Phat linked. It concerned schoolkids in Zanzibar and the problems of a postcolonial Africa struggling to build an identity free of European influence.
And that's what I was talking about. What the hell are you talking about?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by Jon, posted 06-25-2015 11:52 AM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by Jon, posted 06-25-2015 1:15 PM MrHambre has replied

  
MrHambre
Member (Idle past 1423 days)
Posts: 1495
From: Framingham, MA, USA
Joined: 06-23-2003


(1)
Message 78 of 88 (760787)
06-25-2015 2:42 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by Jon
06-25-2015 1:15 PM


Re: Uniculturalism
Jon writes:
MrHambre writes:
It concerned schoolkids in Zanzibar and the problems of a postcolonial Africa struggling to build an identity free of European influence.
And that's a stupid goal that ignores the reality that Europe, its former colonies, and (increasingly) Asia have a heavy influence on the world.
Preserving their language and cultural identity is hardly a "stupid goal," and it confronts, rather than ignores, the undue influence of external powers. The question of learning English isn't just a political matter, it's an economic one: these poor communities have schools where English is taught by instructors with very little proficiency themselves.
Ideals are nice, but until reality matches those ideals, we need to be practical.
No, you don't have to. You can be as cynical and indifferent as you want. Centuries of colonial domination and looting by warlords have left these people with a choice between poverty and exploitation, and you're making it sound like the people in the community stressing the need to preserve its language and culture are the oppressors.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by Jon, posted 06-25-2015 1:15 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by Jon, posted 06-25-2015 4:11 PM MrHambre has not replied
 Message 80 by ringo, posted 06-26-2015 12:40 PM MrHambre has not replied

  
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