A new Religion

There isn't quite a religion section, so i figure this can go here.IMO the most practical use of a religion is a source of (for the most part) really good moral values that can not be questioned. If morals come from God then 1) you can't really question him (being ineffable and elusive and all) and 2) who would really want to question his reasoning or motives anyway?So people at a young age are instilled with, and grow accustom to these God given morals, and the idea of God himself. Parents can take a short cut to these good moral values by taking God's word for everything.But if you have parents that don't quite subscribe to religious views, then children of those parents lose out on that prepackaged set of unquestionable moral values. In its place you have the moral values of parents... and while they may be just as good as the morals of a religious group, there is no convenient way for parents to imprint those values on their kids.Today I see people drifting away from the unquestionable aspects of religion as a contributing factor to our declining moral condition.Granted, our society has gained a lot from this separation from religion, but this new found freedom is having some adverse effects. How can we keep the unquestionable nature of religious moral values, but get rid of the aspects of religion that make those moral values unquestionable?I suggest a group of rules, and moral stances that stand only based on reasons and merits. Periodically these stances should be put under review, and changed as necessary. After all, there are no absolute moral rules or rights, just what societies agree upon.The most important part, however, is that anyone who agrees that this is a good way to adopt moral stances (based on merit alone) must follow the crowd EVEN IF they disagree with what specific morals are agreed upon. To dissent from the group would just be a return to individual morality, and they would not be able to take part in the convenient, prepackaged, unchallengeable morals that this group of reason would provide.

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who would really want to question his reasoning or motives anyway?

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*shoots hand up*Yo.------------------
Mrs. Krabappel: Are there any questions?
Bart: Yes, how would I go about creating a half-man/half-monkey type of creature?
Mrs. Krabappel: I'm sorry, that would be playing God.
Bart: God schmod! I want my monkey-man!

I don't think that we're experiencing a "declining moral condition" at all. Yes, perhaps it may appear that way in light of our old conservative moralities, however in a more progressive light I think it appears that we're finally coming into our own. We're shedding the immoral shackles of prejudice, oppression and bigotry that have characterized our history and instead noticing a trend of permissiveness and granting individuals their right to be whoever they want to be.Granted, we do have a certain perception of an increasing number of bizarre and heinous acts occurring across the globe, but I think that their growing numbers are more a consequence of overpopulation of the planet, and their seeming prevalence a consequence of sensationalism in the media that only compounds and distorts our perceptions of our personal realities. As I've grown older, in the history that I've had a chance to personally witness, I think that we as a species are always surpassing our old moralities, and always learning to improve our relationship with the rest of the planet.I honestly think that it is the general and pervasive attitude which imagines the inevitable self-destruction of the species and/or ruination of the planet at the hands of mankind that is responsible for the lion's share of global strife and conflict. We all think we're out to get eachother! Yet this couldn't be farther from the truth. We are a cooperative species, and it would do us all well to remember that the civilzations we enjoy are a product of man's natural inclination to cooperate. Part of that requires a trust in one's fellow man that is only undermined by the belief that men are sinful, evil, in moral decline, etc... If we are to continue to live in harmony with our environment, or if we are to learn to live in better harmony with it, the pessimism will only inhibit our progress.... IMHO.[This message has been edited by ::, 11-21-2003]

TM I am sorry that you seem to feel this way.It has been my persoal impression growing up that any aspects of religion should be questioned since this is the best way to test the practicality of it.
It is funny that I remember in growing up that every year on television there was 'Charlie Browns' Christmas.'There was a song they sang on this program "Hark the Herald Angels Sing" that I loved and it wasn't till I was much older and reflected upon it that I realized it was the harmony of the song that I enjoyed.My wife is similar in that way though she terms herself a 'born again' christian she has none of the trappings you might expect as far as devotion to it goes. However she tells me that when she lived in Ontario they[She and her foster parents] used to attend a church that was "in the spirit" and the congregation had much dancing and singing which my wife enjoyed immensely.The point being is that the good aspects of religion [for myself anyway] have nothing to do with God or morals but with harmony I suppose.

by declining moral trend i meant more of the subtle effects on youth, and not so much random acts of violence. Things like the changing makeup of families (un-wed parents, and single parents vs. married parents), the higher frequency of poverty among single parents when compared to married parents. Children of married parents are more likely to do better in school. Children of single parents are at a higher risk of sexual abuse (i adapted trends from Barbara Whitehead's Dan Quayle Was Right)I disagree with some of the ways she applied her studies, but one would naturally expect that a two parent family is generally a better place for a child to grow up. Teen suicide rates and out of wedlock birth rates have been increasing over the past 30 years or so.
(Page Not Found | Guttmacher Institute)
(Trends in the Well-Being of America's Children and Youth, 1997 | ASPE) I completely agree in that we are making great gains in civil rights, and personal freedoms... but with those new freedoms aspects of society are also failing. I want to keep the good, and find a way to get rid of the bad. Do you see the above as a possible way of solving this problem?

out of curiosity, what kind of harmony? just a general well being you feel with yourself? or harmony with others?

TMBy harmony I mean people willing to work together towards building common ground rather than spending time in arguement over beliefs. I suppose it is a form of cooperation but flexible cooperation rather than rigid.

Sidelined -A beautiful dream, but very unlikly.

http://www.seculareligion.com

TheoMorphic writes:

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Today I see people drifting away from the unquestionable aspects of religion as a contributing factor to our declining moral condition.

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We had this discussion before.Do you have any evidence of a "declining moral condition"? Crime is down, drug use is down, abortion is down, literacy is up, more people in the US are going to college than ever before (and more than any other country), and on and on and on.Where does this idea of "declining moral condition" come from?

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but this new found freedom is having some adverse effects.

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Name one. Other than the sudden realization by those that would impose theocracy that they cannot do so, what "adverse effect" are you referring to?Be specific.------------------
Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

TheoMorphic writes:

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Teen suicide rates and out of wedlock birth rates have been increasing over the past 30 years or so.

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Didn't you read your own study? The very first sentence of your first link: How could there be an increase in teen pregnancy if they're at record lows?And suicide rates have been fairly flat for the past 40 years (again, we've been through this all before in the We youth at EvC are in Moral Decline thread.As I pointed out in Message 30 in that thread: Since then, at least during the rest of the Clinton years, suicide rates declined.Note that since Bush was made president, those rates have been going back up. When the country swings left, society improves. When it swings right, the country slides back.------------------
Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

"Do you have any evidence of a "declining moral condition"? Crime is down, drug use is down, abortion is down, literacy is up, more people in the US are going to college than ever before (and more than any other country), and on and on and on."When was the last time you gave good old planet earth a visist?
When it comes to crime, drugs, and abortion you should give hospitals and police departments a visist and tell them this. I'm sure youll provide all of them with a good laugh. Literacy is up? Bookstores around the world are going broke my man thats why students have to order their materials trough the internet if they are not available in their local bookstore inside campus. More people are going to college allright thanks to the schoolarships but half of them end up quiting and not graduating-a reason for the many unemployed and the in estability in the economy. The majority of people are not prepared enough for the good jobs and there arent enough burger kings to fit all of them. And even if they were working in a fast food they would have to exploit themselves in order to live comfortably.------------------
BIG Bang=Bigger JOke

"Where does this idea of "declining moral condition" come from?"Ever seen Jerry Springer,Maury, Oprah, or even the local news every now and then------------------
BIG Bang=Bigger JOke

Other than some anecdotal chit chat, exactly why do you think we should accept what you are saying? What you have been given are real attempts to measure the numbers that are under discussion here.You answered without even mentioning them or making it clear why we should take what you say as being better evidence.

jazzlover_PR responds to me:

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Do you have any evidence of a "declining moral condition"? Crime is down, drug use is down, abortion is down, literacy is up, more people in the US are going to college than ever before (and more than any other country), and on and on and on.

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When was the last time you gave good old planet earth a visist?

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Living here right now. Where are you?In the United States, at least until the installation of Bush, crime was down, drug use was down, abortion was down, literacy was up, and more people were going to college than ever before. For example, according to the US Department of Justice: That is simple fact. Key Crime & Justice Facts at a GlanceDo you have anything other than anecdote to justify your claim?

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Where does this idea of "declining moral condition" come from?

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Ever seen Jerry Springer,Maury, Oprah,

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And they have any connection to reality because of what, precisely?If you go looking for weirdos, you'll find them. And combine that with people who are merely faking it in order to get on television (Springer), we are left with the conclusion that you haven't actually rebutted anything.

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or even the local news every now and then

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Perhaps if you watched the local news, you would have seen the reports about the various statistics and how all the stuff mentioned above happened.------------------
Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!