Where should there be "The right to refuse service"?

Let's do the twist now. You're one of the best at it here.

No I do not think homosexuals qualify to be a special class. They are sinners like the rest of us. However, since they can be targeted as victims that is a reason to define them as protected from discrimination.

No I never said "perfect" knowledge of what God wants.

I'm not interested in discriminating against homosexuals as I've said a million times already. I was giving a logical answer to your question, but of course you have to make it into some kind of accusation. Here's another logical answer to the question: have a law declaring that marriage is between a man and a woman. That's what many states have tried to do. But it's been called unconstitutional. Which of course is insane and contrary to the will of the people, which obviously doesn't matter any more. A tiny minority now has rights over the majority of the people.However, the answer to your question is that, given the current climate of legal opinion, there is no way to provide a legal basis for Christians to refuse to honor gay weddings. And that brings us back to the situation I keep describing. Christians will refuse to serve gay weddings because it is a violation of God's law, and the fascist state that denies us our religious rights will have to punish us.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

The same line I would draw between pedophiles and nonpedophiles. Homosexuality is a sin and a deviation from normality. To treat it as a special class that deserves social benefits is insane. To protect them from harm because they are often made targets makes sense, but to extend marriage to them is insane.But that's fine, for this belief I am "discriminating" and that's a no-no, so your new fascist definitions marginalize Christians and will punish us for acting on God's law in refusing to recognize gay marriages, cater to gay weddings etc etc etc. So that's the way it's going and the fascist minds at EvC think it's just fine, you've all made it quite clear that Christians are the most hated people in the west these days (I'm glad at least some of you will rally to the cause of persecuted Christians elsewhere in the world though). Oh the "liberal" Christians are fine with you of course, they don't mind violating God's laws, they'll happily make a wedding cake for a gay couple, and they'll join you in hating us "fundies" too. Hey, nothing could be clearer.Dietrich Bonhoeffer said the true gospel could be phrased "Come to Christ and die," and of course he was right. You can die many different ways. Being hated by nonChristians is one of the ways, then that hatred gets enshrined by the fascist state and there you go. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Do you people stay up nights thinking up ways to twist my words? Belief isn't belief until it's acted upon.

The way the scriptures are twisted here ought to give YOU pause, not me. Loving sinners does not mean supporting the sin, it means calling them to repentance from their sins. Loving your neighbor does not mean ignoring the sins that will take him to hell. It means caring for his basic needs and treating him with respect, but it does not mean depriving him of the knowledge that sin has eternal consequences, or doing anything that violates God's law.You don't like the comparison with pedophilia because you think that's a really terrible sin while you think homosexuality is acceptable, but in God's eyes they are both sins, and both are psychological aberrations in a way that other sins are not, so that it's hard to find other comparisons. There are plenty of heterosexual sins but none of them are characteristic of a person the way homosexuality is or I would use them as my comparison.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

I have no hatred or bigotry, that's coming from you all it seems to me. You have no feeling for the situation a Christian is in with respect to gay marriage and you shouldn't even have an opinion about it. Your accusations of me are quite frankly offensive to God and the idea that I can't know what sin is in God's eyes just shows your blindness to the scriptures you have the presumption to define to me.It takes no special understanding to know that both homosexuality and pedophilia are sins in God's eyes, all it takes is believing what the Bible says. There is nothing difficult or obscure about the passages that refer to homosexuality. In the OT they were punished by death, in the NT they are warned that they will not inherit the kingdom of God, but you think that love means standing by while they skip happily to Hell? You have a really big jolt of a rethink coming somewhere down the road.

Momma cat thought so.

You don't much like hearing the truth I guess.ABE: Stop the false accusations on this thread and the ridiculous twisting of what I say and I'll stop answering with the truth about the situation.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

You'd have a point if you weren't all saying the same thing.As for Funny, I distinctly remember its being made a big deal even at EvC that

It's called rightly dividing the word of truth, the NEW TESTAMENT. Sad that someone has misled you about what Jesus said, to the point that you would actually preach such a twisted view of it to me. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

You say we will not be forced to recognize gay marriage but there has already been one case where a Christian woman in New Mexico was fined for refusing such a service and the higher court refused her appeal, a bakery in Oregon had to close its shop and retreat to having a home business, and a baker in Colorado was ordered by the court to provide the service, as reported HEREAnd two other businesses have refused this service and one of them has been sued.So you are wrong and how can it do anything but get worse? This is very definitely the fascist trend in our legal system that is growing. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

The problem with this thinking is that being a Christian is not a matter that people grow out of. I was a complete heathen atheist for most of my life, would

The problem with this thinking is that being a Christian is not a matter that people grow out of [abe: This wasn't clear. I meant to say that it isn't something that can just disappear from the world by people being educated against it or any other means./abe] I was a complete heathen atheist for most of my life, would probably have agreed with most of you here about all these things. But conversion to Christ is a life changer, a total life changer. I fought a lot of it at first, but what happens is you get transformed, literally made different and you recognize that the Bible is indeed God's word and you believe it and try to live by it. There will be new Christians in every generation. Even if you got rid of all the evangelists there would be new Christians in every generation because it is a supernatural work done by God and there is no way to escape it. If He's decided to save you you will be saved whether you want to be or not. And when that happens you come to know and love His law. And His law clearly requires us to refuse to honor gay marriage. You may not think it does, liberal Christians may not think it does, but it does and those who know God will know that it does and will obey. I'm sure political opinions can die out but Christianity cannot. You'll just have to throw us in the dungeon.Edited by Faith, : add abe sentence