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Author Topic:   The blurry line between religious and crazy
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 15 of 95 (726718)
05-11-2014 1:18 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by RAZD
05-11-2014 12:50 PM


Re: destination/s
Curiously, I look at this and say it is quite reasonable ... if nothing else it is a metaphor for "where do I go from here"
Yes, well, acting out metaphors is in fact a bit crazy. If a man knows some weighty secret that he must reveal, and instead he blows a whistle, releases a cat from a bag, and spills some beans, we would not form a high estimate of his rationality. If he also said that God told him to do these things, we'd think he'd gone completely bonkers.

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 18 of 95 (726771)
05-12-2014 11:18 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by ringo
05-11-2014 3:27 PM


Re: destination/s
What if he rushes in where angels fear to tread?
Well now that would be foolish.

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(2)
Message 25 of 95 (726833)
05-13-2014 10:53 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by Omnivorous
05-13-2014 10:41 AM


Digression
My favorite line from a doctor "Come in, what seems to be the trouble [looks up] OH MY GOD!"
So I'm guessing that in med school he got poor marks for Bedside Manner 101.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(2)
Message 28 of 95 (726866)
05-13-2014 3:11 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by ringo
05-13-2014 11:52 AM


Re: destination/s
What's really frightening about the Holocaust, for example, is the cold, calculating efficiency with which it was done.
Well, was it efficient? We have these stereotypes of German efficiency, but in fact organizationally Nazism was a complete shambles. I think the real moral is that a bunch of crass bungling morons can do a lot of damage if they have enough idiots with enough guns.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 30 of 95 (727013)
05-14-2014 3:16 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by ringo
05-14-2014 12:23 PM


Re: destination/s
Yes, it was efficient. Don't take Hogan's Heroes too literally. The sad part is that the transport of the Jews "to the East" was the crowning glory of Nazi organization.
And did they do that efficiently? They killed a lot of Jews, but we would judge their efficiency by how many got away, what it cost per Jew, and indeed whether that was a good use of their resources rather than fighting the Allies. They were ruthless in pursuit of their stupid half-baked half-assed objectives, but that doesn't mean that they were efficient.

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 Message 31 by ringo, posted 05-14-2014 3:26 PM Dr Adequate has replied
 Message 33 by NoNukes, posted 05-14-2014 10:17 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 32 of 95 (727017)
05-14-2014 5:28 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by ringo
05-14-2014 3:26 PM


Re: destination/s
No. You can't do that. You might as well say that it would have been "more efficient" not to start the war in the first place.
Well, yes. I might as well say that. Moreover I can and I will.
Michael Q. Furterburger inherited his father's office supply business. Instead of spending his time on reducing overheads or increasing sales or anything else that might have made his company more profitable, he decided instead to visit each one of his clients personally and hit them in the face with a fish. Was that an efficient use of his time? I say "no", because he drove down his profits. Would you say "yes" because he successfully hit a lot of people with a fish?
You can only compare what they did with previous attempts to do what they did.
"What they did"? THEY LOST.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 35 of 95 (727086)
05-15-2014 12:21 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by ringo
05-15-2014 11:46 AM


Re: destination/s
They killed six million Jews. They considered it an incomplete victory.
They suffered a crushing defeat. Just sayin'.
They had killing factories. They stole their victims' shoes, their clothing, their hair, their teeth. When, in the course of human history, have their cost-recovery efforts ever been matched?
Well, in the first place, did they in fact get their money back? How much did the Nazis make on second-hand footwear? This is one of the things that the Nazis did to convince themselves that they were being efficient, but do we have figures on the success of their used-shoe-shops? How much did they get for second-hand Jewish teeth? In the second place, it is usual, when carrying out a pogrom, to steal the goods of one's victims. Who knows --- not I, not you --- whether it was cheaper per murdered Jew to let loose a bunch of Cossacks on horseback. How much did the Rwandan genocide cost the Rwandan government? Did they have to build camps and railroad tracks? And in the third place, we may still question, as I have questioned, whether it was efficient to do the thing at all.
Discussing this is making me very depressed. To cheer us all up, here's the story of Goering's brother Albert.

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 Message 34 by ringo, posted 05-15-2014 11:46 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by ringo, posted 05-15-2014 12:28 PM Dr Adequate has replied
 Message 40 by MFFJM2, posted 05-27-2014 9:03 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 37 of 95 (727103)
05-15-2014 1:36 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by ringo
05-15-2014 12:28 PM


Re: destination/s
I find the Holocaust itself depressing, and the fact that the perpetrators tried so hard to be efficient.
Of course they thought they were doing the right thing, operationally and indeed morally. People rarely think of themselves that they're a bunch of slapstick buffoons and also the epitome of evil to boot. You say the Nazis tried to be efficient? Yeah, they also tried to be the good guys. And they tried to win WWII. They failed in all these aims because of being dumbass fuckwits who didn't know a good idea from a bad one, or right from wrong.
I find discussing it slightly cathartic and I find your comments fairly disgusting.
I am sorry that I've disgusted you by suggesting that the Nazis were, amongst their other obvious mental defects, also halfwitted incompetents. It was not my intention to disgust you, and if saying so has that effect on you I shall press the point no further. I shall however continue privately to think that the Nazis were not all that bright.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by ringo, posted 05-15-2014 1:57 PM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 39 of 95 (727122)
05-15-2014 2:30 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by ringo
05-15-2014 1:57 PM


Re: destination/s
I could argue that killing six million Jews was not, in fact, a "huge success". But apparently not without disgusting you. I'm gonna let this one go.

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(2)
Message 50 of 95 (728384)
05-27-2014 3:51 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by MFFJM2
05-27-2014 1:24 PM


Re: destination/s
The Nazi final solution was not formally decided until the Swansea Conference.
A dark chapter in the history of Wales.

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