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Author Topic:   Entitlements - what's so bad about them?
Taq
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Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(2)
Message 31 of 138 (723754)
04-07-2014 3:47 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Coyote
04-07-2014 1:09 AM


Those who are "obliged to pay" might, if the burden placed on them is too great, just give up and join the other side. "Going Galt" is one phrase that describes it.
Another way of looking at it is: "The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money [to spend]." That was from Margaret Thatcher.
Our lack of socialism is causing us to run out of money, at least in the middle class where health care costs continue to outpace wages. If we had socialism, we would actually have MORE money.
Notice that the UK is spending LESS THAN HALF of what we are on healthcare per capita.

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Taq
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Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(10)
Message 34 of 138 (723757)
04-07-2014 4:15 PM


Basic Morality
If we were a nation where 50% of the nation were starving, and the other 50% barely had enough to eat, then it would be foolish to be talking of entitlements.
We can talk about entitlements because of our wealth as a country as a whole. There is way more than enough wealth in this country to fund programs that provide a basic safety net and basic services. In my opinion, it would be immoral not to have these programs.
How is it moral to not have a food stamp program when we are paying farmers billions of dollars NOT to grow food?
How is it moral to have a health care system where a hard working father has to choose between death and bankrupting his family?
How is it moral to work hard your entire life and not be able to live out your last years with dignity and without burdening your family?
How is it moral to give up all of these things so that billionaires can pay a lower tax rate?

  
Taq
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Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(5)
Message 43 of 138 (723795)
04-08-2014 5:50 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by Coyote
04-07-2014 11:53 PM


With all the comments and all the "likes" to those comments, I am really getting the impression that many of you folks feel you have a right to commandeer assets from anyone you choose "for the public good."
Basic services and programs can be funded without having the rich become middle class like you and I.
Is there no limit to your greed for seizing the assets of others?
You do understand the irony of this statement, do you not?
Your whole system of existence requires someone who is productive from whom you can expropriate wealth. What happens when those productive individuals decide not to play your game any longer? What do you do then?
It helps if companies aren't rewarded with wealth by cutting wages and shipping jobs overseas. You talk about greed. It cuts both ways.
All we are asking for is an economy that is fair for everyone, and a government that is able to provide basic services for all people. We have nothing against people getting rich. What we are against is an economy that serves the uber rich at the expense of the middle class.

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Taq
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Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(4)
Message 71 of 138 (723892)
04-10-2014 6:19 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by Coyote
04-09-2014 12:31 AM


I was raised out in the hills, where people tended to take care of themselves. Many who are criticizing me were raised in cities and expect others to take care of them.
People are working 2 jobs at minimum wage to get by. Do you really think they would work 2 jobs if they expected other people to take care of them?
The Progressive mindset is not "sit at home and rake in the welfare". I don't know why you insist on mischaracterizing it in this way. The Progressive mindset is that trickle-down economics doesn't work. Concentrating wealth at the top doesn't work. Giving tax breaks to billionaires does not create jobs.
What I would like to hear from you is what happens when the wealthy have taken all of the money from the middle class. What then?

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Taq
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Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(1)
Message 102 of 138 (724224)
04-14-2014 10:07 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by marc9000
04-14-2014 8:08 PM


Re: Good Capitalism Vs Bad Capitalism
Maybe not, in every single case. But they are in a lot of cases. Wealth accruers (is that a word?) are just as diverse as any classification of people in the U.S. (or many other countries). That's one of the biggest problems with the political left in the U.S. - they tend to lump them all together as they try to redistribute their wealth. Maybe a small percentage of the "rich" (the rentiers) can afford having yet another chunk of their wealth confiscated by government, but a lot of the other "rich" (the risk takers) cannot, subsequently they take less risk, and innovate less, and employ less middle and lower class.
It is called taxation, not confiscation. Last I checked, that power was granted to Congress in the US Constitution. You may want to give it a read.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by marc9000, posted 04-14-2014 8:08 PM marc9000 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 106 by marc9000, posted 04-15-2014 6:59 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(5)
Message 109 of 138 (724302)
04-15-2014 8:27 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by marc9000
04-15-2014 6:59 PM


Re: Good Capitalism Vs Bad Capitalism
That depends on who's doing the calling, what it's used for and who is paying it.
It is collected by an elected government through the powers given to that elected government by a constitution. It's taxation by every definition.

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