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Author | Topic: Pesky Starlight | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
John Paul Inactive Member |
quote: John Paul:Has anyone here read the book? Has anyone here done any research to see if Humphreys has responded to RTB? Oh, no to both. Let me help you: Humphreys answers his critics and SEVEN YEARS OF STARLIGHT AND TIME It's actually a pretty cool concept. He also has a video about it. Starlight & Time: book & video Is that music still playing? ------------------John Paul
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John Paul Inactive Member |
quote: John Paul:How can we get technical if you haven’t read what Humphreys has written on the subject? After all it is his baby you’re talking about. Don’t you want to see the baby for yourself before passing judgement on it? quote: John Paul:Anytime you want to start, please procede. quote: John Paul:I was under the impression that your argument was that no Creationist could/ has answered your questions. The book Noah’s Ark: A Feasibility Study does just that. quote: John Paul:It just stands to reason that you should know what you are arguing against before arguing against it. quote: John Paul:You assume wrong. Last year I bought a book Volvox- Molecular-Genetic Origins of Multicellularity and Cellular Differentiation by David Kirk ($110.00) and I have THE HGP copy of Nature. I also get Nature updates daily. Ya see qs, I WANT to know. And the more I know the more confident I grow that the alleged ‘great transformations’ spewed by the theory of evolution are nothing but ‘just-so’ stories. Right there next to abiogenesis. quote: John Paul:So you HAVE read Humphreys’ book? Welcome to the wonderful age of 12. Give it time young Skywalker. quote: John Paul:I have a very good understanding of what he (Humphreys) is talking about. However a concept doesn’t rise or fall on the assurance that 100% of the people will understand the ‘scientific jargon’ put forth in said concept. [QUOTE]qs:and here is a link to another anti-book site, where 4 incredibly experienced mathmeticians and physicists critiqued the book- their opinion matters a little. http://www.reasons.org/resources/faf/95q3faf/95q3star.html John Paul: Russell Humphreys challenges Hugh Ross
http://www.trueorigin.org/ca_rh_02.asp Also Humphreys has answered the charges made by Page & Conners
quote: John Paul:Who? Hugh Ross? I agree. ------------------John Paul
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John Paul Inactive Member |
Peter:
I'm not entirely sure of JP's full position re: YEC, but even if Humphrey's were right (I've not read his book yet, although I'll search it out) it poses a problem for MANY YEC's. John Paul:If you had read the book you would have seen it is exactly what YEC requires. Peter:Effectively, if right, Humphrey's hypothesis leads to the conclusion that the story in Genesis is NOT strictly speaking the literal truth. John Paul:I don't have to book with me so if I have time later I will fill in some points. Regardless the way he writes it goes along with a literal Genesis. Peter:Why ? Genesis says that from nothing to a fully populated Earthtook 6 days. John Paul:Fully populated is a stretch. Is today's world fully populated? Peter:The earth itself is created on day 1 ... before light is created, and three 'days' before any stars are created (on day 4). How could stars be created AFTER the earth, and yet their lightbe millions of years old, when the earth is only thousands of years old ? John Paul:It all has to do with event horizons, time dilation and relativity. Peter:We either have a Young Earth, but the bible is wrong. OR A young earth and Humphrey's is wrong. (OR an old earth, natch ) I cannot see any way that Humphrey's hypothesis could be compatiblewith Genesis. Admittedly I haven't read the book ... so perhaps JP (who has?) could answer this one. John Paul:The cool part about the book (now in video) is Humphreys puts down his version on how he believes God Created the cosmos, day by day. If his premise is correct as the event horizon of the white hole reaches earth, although only 24 hours of earth time go by, billions of years of processes take place outside of the event horizon. He uses Stephen Hawking's idea of an astronaut and a astronomer. That is as the astronomer watches the astronaut fall towards an event horizon of a black hole the astronomer notices the astronauts time piece is moving slower and slower. Once the astronaut gets to the EH the astronomer observes the astronaut's time piece has effectively stopped. What Humphreys does is to turn that around and use the astronaut observing the astronomer. As the astronaut nears the EH he observes the clock on the astronomer's wall speeding up. As the astronaut reaches the EH the astronomer's clock becomes a blur because the hands are moving too fast. IOW God used relativity to Create the universe in 6 days, earth time. ------------------John Paul
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John Paul Inactive Member |
Mark:
Just a quickie. Does Humphreys explain how the earth escapes the gravity well causing the event horizon, & is it scientifically supported? John Paul:What gravity well? You do realize we are talking white hole and not black hole. A white hole is a black hole running in reverse. IOW, things leave it. As it stands it appears to be as scientifically supported as the big-bang. ------------------John Paul
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John Paul Inactive Member |
Peter:
OK. Let me get this straight ... God creates the Earth, then goes 'Oops! Forgot to do thestars ... I know I'll hold up time on Earth by putting it in an event horizon while I fill in the rest of the cosmos.' John Paul:You don't have it straight. According to this premise God Creates a ball of water 2 light years across, with an EH that extends another .5 LY from it. God starts it rotating and as it rotates it collapses. Nuclear fusion starts. God stops the collapse and starts the expanse- the white hole is born. Peter:Well, God moves in mysterious ways, and can do anything. So this hypothesis basically says 'God can do whatever He wants because He's omnipotent' (apologies to any feminists who object to God as He). John Paul:Perhaps, but that is not the issue. What we do now is to use science to understand God's Creation. Peter:That makes this thread a traditional creationist Vs. science impasse. John Paul:Funny Newton didn't see it as an impasse. He was a Creationist ya know. Peter:If this event horizon had existed ... what evidence of its passing should we expect ? There must be some remnants ... after all it's only been gonefor 6000 years, tops. That's peanuts to the cosmos. John Paul:I doubt 6,000 is the correct number, but that would be Earth time. Billions of years worth of processes would have taken place outside of the EH as the EH passes Earth. What would we expect to see- an expanding universe. Peter:Was the whole solar system in this event horizon ... or just earth ? John Paul:Everything, as in all the matter in the universe. ------------------John Paul
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John Paul Inactive Member |
Mark:
How does a white hole have an event horizon? John Paul:How Long is a chinaman. My understanding is that anything with enough mass would have an EH. If all the mass of the universe were in one location I would think that would qualify. As the matter exits the white hole its EH shrinks until it is gone. Mark:Is anti-gravity supported in science? John Paul:Is anti-gravity part of the big-bang? My understanding is the same gravitatioal forces were at work in this scenario as in the big-bang. Mark:What prediction, exactly, produces a white hole? John Paul:1st this white hole is very different than any other theoretical white holes. White holes have been theorized to be at the other end of the worm hole created by a black hole. Matter enters the black hole, travels through the worm hole and exits the white hole. But that is NOT what Humphreys is theorizing. ------------------John Paul
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