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Author Topic:   Is God good?
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3849 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 480 of 722 (684062)
12-15-2012 10:34 AM


Is God good in that "He" uses evolution as the tool by which life improves and becomes stronger on planet earth?
Sure.
That is how "He" has manifested in an image called man.
If God was not good in this way, man would never have come into being.

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3849 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 481 of 722 (684064)
12-15-2012 10:46 AM
Reply to: Message 458 by Drosophilla
12-13-2012 8:04 AM


Re: Viewpoints
I didn't say Faith was a psychopath - but that some views that people like her hold can be viewed like that - in particular for me, the nonchalance with which acts like the Flud can be written off with an airy "It's God's will".
But isn't it crazy for educated people to ignore the evidence in Genesis that the "Flood" was a metaphor for a real event that ZDID happen when Neanderthals we all strangely eliminated by some Act-of-God just 40,000 years of "days and nights" ago?
Call it a coincidence if you will, but the two reports correspond to one another, given the clear necessity for the Bible writers to camouflage the specifics and present the facts in a way acceptable to all those ancient generations of people ignorant of the rather amazing truth we now understand.
I call the atheists sick mentally for this reason while the crazy Bible people would rather stone wall Evolution and insist the church teach lies when the facts in Genesis are amazing confirmation of a divine revelation.
Both sides are mental, the psychopathic atheist are trying to hurt others in the Religious community, while the Bible believers are neurotics hurting their own case for Genesis.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 458 by Drosophilla, posted 12-13-2012 8:04 AM Drosophilla has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 482 by herebedragons, posted 12-15-2012 1:42 PM kofh2u has replied

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3849 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 484 of 722 (684097)
12-15-2012 5:18 PM
Reply to: Message 482 by herebedragons
12-15-2012 1:42 PM


Re: Viewpoints
So basically, the entire world is crazy except for you. You are the only one in the world who is sane enough to figure this mystery out.
I just had that same thought.
Seems so.
Unless some lurking sane reader speaks up here, and now.
That rationale would apply to many many scientists, such as Ohms, Wegener, and every Mathematician who was the first to see a new theorem was valid.
But what I see is Hegel's Dialectic at work with the Theist of Religion pitted against the Anti-theist of Evolution.
On one side we have those Atheists laughing with ridicule at the present church interpretation of Genesis, which attacks more the Bible and the Institution of Religion than Genesis.
On the other side is the Church today, which is, insanely, trying to get the next generation to reject Science in spite of all the technology that has already seduced them, and the gigantic Institution of Education which has gathered them all into a massive college congregation.
I am part of the Synthesis to emerge from this Dialectic Force, one of the growing number of believers in Theistic Evolution.
The insanity seems to rest with people so comfortable among their present majority on either side, now, that they believe Truth is a function of Democratic Majority,....
Rev. 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold,... (the golden spiritual insights of the irrepressible idea of psychic Consciousness emerging from scripture) ... tried in the fire... (of time),... that thou mayest be rich... (in continued church leadership); and (re-interpret upon) white (yet unwritten, new pages), raiment,... (of revised books of your evermore obvious misinterpretations), ...that thou mayest be clothed... (and protected in thine thinking with secularly acceptable scriptural confirmations), ...and that the shame... (as visited in Geocentricism does not reoccur concerning magical Creationism, impossible literal world-wide floods, genealogies of individuals who lived inordinately long personal life times, Sun and Moon and Stars absent from the Heavens while light shines through the Cosmos, etc) ...of thy nakedness... (of your unsupportable intuitive irrationalities) ...do not appear... (and confront you as happened before The Reformation); ...and anoint thine eyes...(awaken!)... with (the) eyesalve... (of reality!), ...that thou mayest see... (socio-psychologically).
The real WOW is that actually, crazy people do not believe the truth so essily, hang onto erroneous beliefs, kill all the prophets, ridicule most scientists and aryists too fqr ahead of the curve, and neverlive long enough to to aplogize when they are shown to have been fools.
TRhat is the historical facts, isn't it?
Galileo brought down the whole Catholic Chuch but long after he died.

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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3849 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 490 of 722 (684209)
12-16-2012 2:48 PM
Reply to: Message 485 by Dr Adequate
12-15-2012 8:01 PM


Re: But that is NOT Charles Darwin's Theory of Evolution
I know the title. I also know the content. Darwin does not mention human races anywhere in the whole course of the book. The word "races" in the title refers to subspecies of plants and animals, as you have already been informed. Pointing this out is not "dancing", it is stating the cold hard fact that you are ignoring because doing so allows you to talk fatuous and disingenuous nonsense.
Of course.
The whole of the Holocaust was Sociological in its roots.
That allowed the Bible writers to predict that it would happen:
Rev. 11:7 And when they, (the House of Jacob and the house of Judah, the two witnesses), shall have finished their testimony (against their own suffering messiah), the (seven headed) beast (of Western civilization) that (had) ascendeth out of the bottomless pit (in The Renaissance) shall make (secular) war against them, (these Jews of the diaspora), and shall overcome them (in 1942), and kill them (with gas and starvation and brutalities).
Rev. 11:8 And, (the House of Jacob and the house of Judah), their dead bodies shall lie in the street (of Nazi Paganism) of the great city (which is the tenth horn of Western Civilization), which spiritually (in its philosophical outlook) is called Sodom, (i.e.; a place practicing pagan sexual license and libidinal excess) and (that ancient place of Jew trust in the shadow of) Egypt, (the time of their confusion: [Isa. 30:2-3]: Egypt, the land of both their beloved Joseph and also, their slavery), where, (in their blindness of scriptural truth) also our Lord was crucified (among them in 32 AD).
Rev. 11:9 And they of the (the gentile) people and kindreds and tongues (in the lands of the Jewish dispersion, from the time of the beginning of the construction of the abomination of the Dome of the Rock in 688AD until 1948, i.e., 1260 years) among them, (during the Diaspora), and nations (both) shall see their dead bodies (in Concentration Camps) three days (of years, i.e.; 1260) and an half, (1942-1945), and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves (but disposed of in the Crematoriums).
Rev. 11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth, (in Nazi Western Europe), shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send (supposed Christian seasonal) gifts one to another; because these two prophets, (the holy people of the book), tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
Rev. 11:11 And after (the Holocaust), three and an half days (of years), the Spirit of life from God entered into them, (the House of Jacob and the House of Judah), and they stood upon their feet (in the land Promised); and great fear fell upon them (in Islam) which saw them, (the prophecy of the Fig Tree, blooming, Hosea 9:10, was fulfilled: [Matt 24:32].
Rev. 11:12 And (the survivors), they (collectively) heard (the commands of Zionism), a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither (to the prophecy fulfilled, where all Nations can see the Jew returned to the Holy Land once again.).
And they ascended up to heaven (by complying with the voice, gathering themselves together in this Zionism) in a cloud (of peoples from Western Europe and all the world); and their enemies (especially in Palestinia) beheld them.
Rev. 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, (i.e.; Israeli Statehood), and the tenth part of the city, (that first small piece of the Promised Land), fell (to the returning Jews), and in the earthquake (of their in-gathering) were slain of (Muslim) men, seven thousand:
and the remnant
(Islamic armies) were affrighted, and (all the Judaeo-Christian world) gave glory to the God of heaven (that prophecy of Daniel, 12:11-12, had been fulfilled as Christ had acknowledged and opposed the Maccabean interpretations).
Edited by kofh2u, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 485 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-15-2012 8:01 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3849 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 493 of 722 (684223)
12-16-2012 6:22 PM
Reply to: Message 491 by foreveryoung
12-16-2012 5:38 PM


Re: Darwin's theory DID enfluence Nazis,
Did darwin's theories not affect anyone in germany at the time ? If they did affect people, why would hitler be immune to its effect?
Indirectly, yes, Social Darwinism arose because of the impact of the philosophy of Nietzsche.
It was philosophy, not science, not Darwin, but the reasoning behind this philosophy which convinced men they were smart enough to "help" Evolution by a Direct Input, akin tour thoughts today in regard to micro chips inserted in the heads of people, or genetic manipulations.
But the real force behind what happened was a Sociological consequence.
No peoples have ever existed very long if they refused to assimilate into the mainstream group once they we displaced and had lost the own homeland.
This was the same Social Force which is still at work for the European Gypsies that no one care about today, and who are still being discriminated against right now.

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 Message 491 by foreveryoung, posted 12-16-2012 5:38 PM foreveryoung has not replied

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3849 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 497 of 722 (684248)
12-16-2012 9:26 PM
Reply to: Message 494 by foreveryoung
12-16-2012 6:23 PM


Re: Darwin's theory DID enfluence Nazis,
qs
I mean affect their whole philosophy of life to the point where they would start doing things they would not have done without the influence of darwin. [/qs]
When Nietzsche said, "God is dead"implying that man was not and had replaced God as the Superman he envisioned, he was suggesting an evolutionary step forward as clearly as the Mormons now believe will take place though God will still live but o his own separate planet from their own.
Nevertheless, the influence of Nietzsche actually was more to suggest to Hitler that supermen could be decreed immediately, through breeding.
That idea may or may not have been influenced by Darwin.
A super race was not really an idea original to Darwinism, but had even been understood when Jacob controlled the traits of cattle and sheep using Mendel's same techniques long before Moses appeared.
But, I will grant you that like Obama and the "Progressives" of today, and every architect of an Utopian Society, the Force of Social Darwinism is subtly in their mind.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 494 by foreveryoung, posted 12-16-2012 6:23 PM foreveryoung has not replied

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3849 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 498 of 722 (684249)
12-16-2012 9:41 PM
Reply to: Message 495 by Dr Adequate
12-16-2012 6:24 PM


Re: Darwin's theory DID enfluence Nazis,
Whatever Hitler may have said in regard to the Bible and religion he would have hidden his conviction that "God was dead" and the work of the future was in in his hands, because it was Nietzsche who so strongly influenced him, not Darwin.
"During the 1930's, aspects of Nietzsche's thought were espoused by the Nazis and Italian Fascists, partly due to the encouragement of Elisabeth Frster-Nietzsche through her associations with Adolf Hitler and Benito Mussolini. It was possible for the Nazi interpreters to assemble, quite selectively, various passages from Nietzsche's writings whose juxtaposition appeared to justify war, aggression and domination for the sake of nationalistic and racial self-glorification."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 495 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-16-2012 6:24 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3849 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 500 of 722 (684337)
12-17-2012 8:41 AM
Reply to: Message 499 by PaulK
12-17-2012 2:28 AM


Re: Darwin's theory DID enfluence Nazis,
I would think that more important influences would have been:
Germany's defeat in WWI and the humiliations of the Treaty of Versailles
The Great Depression and its impact on Germany
The racial theories of Gobineau, as developed by Houston Stewart Chamberlain
The music and thought of composer Richard Wagner
The long history of anti-semitism in Christianity (e.g. the Blood Libel, Luther's On the Jews and Their Lies)
Yes,... sociology, not Darwinism.
The philosophy of Religion on the Right, over a millennia, coupled to Nietzsche's Power of the Will on the Left united the entire nation against Jews who had enough welath that it paid for 1/3 of all the War costs at a time when the government was broke, financially.
The perfect storm and scape goat:
Gen. 22:13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him, (an uncastrated male sheep), a ram, (also, figuratively, [ayil: the political chiefs]; symbolic of the European Jewish rabbi), caught in a thicket (of the Nazi persecution), by his horns, (or, his power: [symbolic Dictionary]):
and Abraham, (in analogy to God), went and took, (in place of the lamb of his only son, Isaac), the ram, (the Jewish people and leadership in Europe of the 20th century to come), and offered him, (as a Burnt Offering, the sin offering, the Jewish people themselves: [Exodus 4:22 Then you shall say to Pharaoh, Thus says the Lord, ‘Israel is My son, my first born.’]), up (in holocaust) for a burnt offering (in the crematoriums of WWII, the Burnt Offering of Israel, the chosen son of God in the stead of (Isaac), his (only) son, (in analogy, as was Christ offered for their salvation).
It was all pedictable...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 499 by PaulK, posted 12-17-2012 2:28 AM PaulK has not replied

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3849 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 518 of 722 (684511)
12-17-2012 5:43 PM
Reply to: Message 516 by jar
12-17-2012 4:36 PM


Re: Goodness Demands Justice
I deny that there was ever a flood as described in the Biblical myths. I seriously doubt that Noah ever even lived.
1) There was a "flood" of humanity Out-of-Africa 40 thousand years ago, that we do know.
And we also are certain that from then until about 10,000 years ago, all other humanoid types of anceatora to modern man went extinct.
Gen. 6:7 And the LORD, (the force behind the ever unfolding Reality of the Universe) said, I will destroy man (of these types and species) whom I have created (for the purpose to mentally model my image of Reality), destroy them, (of these types and species), from the face of the earth, (deeming them extinct); both (this species and kind of) man, and (his present abstract idea of) the beast (of the earth), and (his idea of) the creeping thing (of the earth), and (his idea of) the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them (in this process of evolution).
2) We know that the Noah story corresponds one-to-one with that, if we grant that "40 days" was really meant to hint at 40,000 years.
2 Peter 3:8
But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years,...
3) We are also sure that Neanderthal women hybridized with our ancestors who equate to the modern men today who are the "sons-of-God"who survived extinction.
Gen. 6:4 There were giants, (Homo Erectus of Methusaelian and Methuselahian kinds according to the bible), in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God, (that line of ascent which would not become extinct, Methuselahian links, through Seth, i.e.; Modern Homo Erectus), came in unto the daughters, (the sister species of Tubal-cain, Naamahians, a late stage Neanderthal type), of men, ("daughters" of the previous adaptation of the Methusaelian line of Cain, i.e.; Homo antecessor, derived through the line of Cain), and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men, (Neanderthals), which were of old, (powerful) men of renown (physical strength).
4) We DO know that modern man appeared 100,000 years BEFORE the population explosion Out-of-Africa, or @ 150,000 years ago.
This is exactly what Genesis says, in that the three racial stocks of Modern Homo sapiens were born to Noah 100,000 "years" before the 40,000 year long "flood" began:
Gen 5:32 And Noah, (an archaic type of Homo sapiens forebearer), was five hundred "years" old, (and the Flood will come when Noah is 600 "years" old: Gen 7:6) : and Noah begat Shem, (the Mongoloids), Ham, (the Negroids), and Japheth, (the Caucasians).
5) We DO know that the present seven genetic racial divisions and sources of modern men were differentiated from the Three Racial Stocks which both science and Genesis refwer to:
6) It is a reasonable metaphor that the "Ark" which carried all names of the animals forward into the world that followed the extinction of the previously dominant Neanderthals was inside our own Brain:
7) We NOW know that genetic evidence supports a "Noah" who live @ 40,000 years ago, is the common, single, one father to whom all men living today are related according to the Y-chromosome evidence.
This fact was announced in US NEws Magazine under the Title article about Darwin.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 516 by jar, posted 12-17-2012 4:36 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 519 by jar, posted 12-17-2012 5:46 PM kofh2u has replied

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3849 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 521 of 722 (684521)
12-17-2012 6:02 PM
Reply to: Message 519 by jar
12-17-2012 5:46 PM


Re: Goodness Demands Justice
And none of that bullshit fantasy has any relationship to any of the Biblical flood myths or to the topic under discussion.
Then YOU need stop interjecting the comments into the discussion which need be corrected.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 519 by jar, posted 12-17-2012 5:46 PM jar has not replied

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3849 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 542 of 722 (684649)
12-18-2012 10:48 AM
Reply to: Message 541 by jar
12-18-2012 9:13 AM


Re: Goodness Demands Justice
Jar takes another tack. He assumes that the Exodus is only a story. My problem with Jar's take is that even taking the story as a myth, one might well wonder the value in a story that makes a monotheistic God seem unjust.
/////
jar:
You need to look at the story from the morality stance of the period. At that time (and for most of history since then) a ruler was considered absolute and what that ruler did was just regardless of how we might judge it today. In the story the God character is simply a plot device in a saga meant to remind folk of how THEY became a nation, a people. The Hebrews are good, all others are bad.
That view of authority, of the rights of a god or monarch or prince is still around in much of the world today even in the US.
I agree.
The church people "need to look at the story from the morality stance of the period."
What they should notice is that the Bible correctly describes the two types of men and their societies on the planet earth at that time.
There is the patriarchs, similar to the moslems today.
And then there are all the other Gentile nations, the more feminized societies surrounding the Hebrew oatriarchs, if not actually matriarchies by contrast.
These matriarchies are similar is their rejection of the religious Laws and there openess to a more sexually premissive cultural.
If we take the Bible at itsword, then God not only created these two types of men, but one does "hear" god and take this seriously, condemning the nations around them, attacking, killing, invading them just as te bible history reports.
These Gentiles which are more numerous and better educated, much more urbanized and afluent societies that crumb before the Jews.
God does seem to favor the Hebrew patriarchs who win over the odds against them and in the end, reign over these Gentiles.
That is the Big Picture, isn't it????

This message is a reply to:
 Message 541 by jar, posted 12-18-2012 9:13 AM jar has not replied

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3849 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 543 of 722 (684651)
12-18-2012 10:53 AM
Reply to: Message 526 by Dr Adequate
12-17-2012 8:25 PM


Re: The Nazis' (Book) Burning Zeal For Darwinism
So, I have at last found a Nazi reference to Darwinism. It's in their guidelines for banning books.
Along with "Die Literatur des Marxismus, Kommunismus, Bolschewismus" ("the literature of Marxism, Communism, Bolshevism") and "Die liberalistisch-demokratische Tendenz- und Gesinnungsliteratur" ("Literature with liberal-democratic tendencies and attitudes") they also wished to suppress writings "deren Inhalt die falsche naturwissenschaftliche Aufklrung eines primitiven Darwinismus [...] ist" ("which contain the pseudoscientific exposition of primitive Darwinism").
They also condemned "Alle Schriften, welche die christliche Religion und ihre Einrichtungen, den Gottesglauben [...] verhhnen, verumglimpfen oder verchtlich machen" ("All works which mock, libel, or make contemptible the Christian religion and its institutions, belief in God ...")
Excellent research.
Now find all the things which the Nazi appropriated from the ideas of Nietzsche.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 526 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-17-2012 8:25 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3849 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 576 of 722 (684875)
12-19-2012 7:26 AM
Reply to: Message 575 by Dr Adequate
12-19-2012 2:54 AM


And since the Ten Commandments say "thou shalt not kill" the people killed in the wars of the Israelites must not then be considered dead.
The Hebrew says Thou shalt not Murder.
A murder is an illegal killing, while War is authorized by declarations on both sides and then the "game" begins.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 575 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-19-2012 2:54 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3849 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 577 of 722 (684876)
12-19-2012 7:42 AM
Reply to: Message 574 by Dr Adequate
12-19-2012 2:41 AM


You could make a slogan out of that. "Jehovah --- Not Quite As Evil As The Assyrians."
You interpret the events as if God did these things.
The Bible clearly tells us that God made some men who will behave as the Herbrew patriarchs did.
While the same God made other men, Gentiles. They were the victims in this case.
They are more feminized, less violent and aggressive in regard to invading the lands of the partiarchies around them.
They are rich and successful societies disinterested in these rag tag patriarchs outside their gates.
Its like the rich sexually promiscuous gentiles of Western Europe/America, today, compared to the muslims who obey Sharia which they all say God spoke out for them as His Law.
It all seems true, just as the Bible says, feminized Gentiles Vs misogynistic partiarchs.
The Battle of the Sexes, Matriarchy Vs Patriarchy, isn't it, Doctor?
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Rev. 17:3 So he carried me away (in the spirit of thought), into the wilderness (of my imagination) and I saw (as if) a woman, ...
.... (those who have Institutionalized a system of sexual seduction into a failed matrimony), sit upon a scarlet coloured beast (of a brazen and corrupt sexually misdirected economic system: [Dan 3:1-5]), full of names of (Pagan) blasphemy, having seven heads:
(which existed in (1) Egypt, (2) Assyria, (3) Babylon, (4) Persia/Mede, (5) Greece, (6) Rome (7) the whole of Western Culture to follow)...
... having ten horns upon these seven heads:
(1. Undivided Empire; capital Rome: [305 AD],
2. Western Roman Empire: (Romulus Augustus): [to 476 AD],
3. Eastern Roman: Byzantine Empire, [1453 AD]
4. Charlemagne, [800 - 1000 AD]
5. Holy Roman Empire, [1200 AD-1492 AD]
6. Italy, [Renaissance, 16th century]
7. Spain, [17th century]
8. France, [18th-19th Century]
9. Britain, [19th-20th century]
10. Nazi Germany, [20th century])
11. America next?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 574 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-19-2012 2:41 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 592 by NoNukes, posted 12-19-2012 3:23 PM kofh2u has replied

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3849 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 594 of 722 (684995)
12-19-2012 9:58 PM
Reply to: Message 592 by NoNukes
12-19-2012 3:23 PM


Let us make man in our image...
Actually, kofh2u, we are discussing verses in the Bible which present things like rape, genocide, and enslavement as instructions and orders from God.
Right.
God made two different types of man, one the Gentiles and the other, the Hebrew patriarchs.
Patriarchs, like the muslims today, hear orders from God which tell them to wipe out the sexually promiscuous gentiles.
Seems they do hear Him and will obey, de facto.
Is it your position that you don't think God tells them this, or that patriarchs are lying, or that the evidence that patriarch are obeying god's orders is wrong, or... what exactly???
Or is it your point that God is evil because patriarchs ought not oppose nations that promote sexual promiscuity and then require massive annual abortions in order to afford that kind of behavior?
I would argue that man is a species who had better adapt to the Reality that sexual promiscuity threatens to destroy families and Nations, and is a potential reason for economic decay and ultimately wars.
God apparently is telling patriarchs to adapt to the real environment or suffer extinction at some point.

This message is a reply to:
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