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Author Topic:   Evidence for the Supernatural
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 88 of 107 (650351)
01-30-2012 1:46 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by crashfrog
01-30-2012 9:49 AM


Re: Israel's Occupation
Well, ok, here's what you're overlooking that makes me find the re-establishment of Israel not all that "miraculous." It's safe to say that your position relies chiefly on two facts:
1) That Israel was "coincidentally" re-established right where it used to exist, and
2) That the Jews "miraculously" were able to survive as a people over 19 centuries of displacement and oppression.
No. That is not my position. My position is that in the latter days the nation of Israel will be established upon the same land which the nation existed in ancient times when the prophecies were spoken. This does not mean that every square mile of the promised land will suddenly be occupied. It means that it will be within the promised borders. That's why Israel gave the Sinai Peninsula back to Egypt after they took it in the 1967 Six Day War. That's why Israel has never tried to expand their borders beyond what was predicted and what was rightfully allotted to them by Jehovah.
Other messianic prophecies relative to declare that when messiah comes and sets up his unending kingdom in the land that it will all eventually be restored to the nation.
Crash and others, that's why one must corroborate all of the prophecies relative to this so as to get the aggregate of their fulfillment. I've been into these, studiously, for over 60 years as a youth. I know the prophecies and have done my home work on them. It's not well assimilated by cherry picking novices.
I get hammered in science if I go beyond my capability. That does not mean you or I cannot delved into them, raise questions and debate some of it as we do.
This was not to be a coincidence as you allege. It was to be by the providence of Jehovah who inspired the prophets to predict the events.
The ancient people were not to "miraculously" survive all those centuries. Their descendants, regardless of where they would be born, i.e. Jews, would come out of the nations and migrate back to the land from which their ancient forbears lived.
The prophecy declares that there will be nations which will oppose the Jew's occupation and contend for their land in the latter days when of their re-emergence as a nation.
A reading of Ezekiel, chapters 35 - 38 give a detailed sequence and account of this phenomena. My position is the scriptural one, that there would be nations opposing the resurgence of Israel and contend for the land, as is all over our news media today.
For example, in Ezekiel 35, the prophet predicted that the occupants of the land of Edom would claim two nations, i.e. both Israel and Edom as their own lands. The Palestinians who are clamoring for the demise of Israel and who now occupy part of ancient Israel's land now occupy ancient Edom
There are other prophecies that predict that all of the old promised land will be restore to Israel and a descendant of David will rule over them. I don't have that source on the top of my head and don't have time just now to look it up.
crashfrog writes:
2) Are today's Jews the same people as the people of ancient Israel? I don't see that they are, for the most part:
(Born-abroad Israeli Jews by nation of birth.)
As you can see, the majority of Israel's returning Jews are overwhelmingly of Central Asian birth, not of Middle East descent. You can see a better breakdown here. Judaism is a creed in addition to an ethnicity - people can decide to be Jews - and after 19 centuries of displacement, about the only thing they have in common with the Jews of ancient Israel is the religion.
Crashy, surely you've got enough smarts to know that where ever Jews reside, they are identifiable as descendants of ancient Jews. For example, in NYC, Jews are Jews are Jews, regardless of whether they are atheistic, Christian Jews or orthodox Jews.
Some decades ago a large C47 was gutted and airlifted a thousand Blackish Ethiopian Jews to Israel. Over the centuries, evidently there was some micro-evolving pertaining to them and enough Negro blood in their genes to change the color of their skin. Nevertheless, genetically, they were identifiable as Jews. This alone is phenomenal.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
Someone wisely said something ;ike, "Before fooling with a fool, make sure the fool is a fool."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by crashfrog, posted 01-30-2012 9:49 AM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 89 by jar, posted 01-30-2012 1:54 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 90 by crashfrog, posted 01-30-2012 1:59 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 91 by PaulK, posted 01-30-2012 2:06 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 92 by DrJones*, posted 01-30-2012 2:11 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 98 of 107 (650414)
01-30-2012 8:14 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by bluegenes
01-30-2012 5:32 PM


Re: Israel's Occupation
bluejeans writes:
A Jewish historical claim to rule the city looks absurd according to that timeline.
The problem with your straw-man data is that what the observable evidence pertaining to the prophets show, is that the promise of Jehovah to Abram, Isaac and confirmed to Jacob that the land would be restored in the latter days, to become Israel's land foreverm is on tract. Despite all of the waring nations committed to tiny Israel's demise, surrounding her, she has withstood them all, still Jewish and still powerful.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
Someone wisely said something ;ike, "Before fooling with a fool, make sure the fool is a fool."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by bluegenes, posted 01-30-2012 5:32 PM bluegenes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 99 by jar, posted 01-30-2012 8:26 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 100 by PaulK, posted 01-31-2012 1:20 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 101 by Warthog, posted 01-31-2012 6:08 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 102 by bluegenes, posted 01-31-2012 7:10 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
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