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Author Topic:   Does science ask and answer "why" questions?
Modulous
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Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


(1)
Message 227 of 353 (648024)
01-12-2012 5:25 PM
Reply to: Message 225 by New Cat's Eye
01-12-2012 2:41 PM


why we are here
I don't think that science should leave questions to religions to answer. My position is that there are certan kinds of questions, like 'why are we here', that science is not in the business of answering.
Science has answered 'why are we here?': We are here because we are descended from a long line of ancestors who were successful reproducers. Why successful reproducers? Because unsuccessful ones died out without leaving descendants.
That answer might not be satisfying to some, who hoped there was some fantastic reason for us being here, but it has the advantage of being evidence based and apparently quite true.
Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.

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 Message 225 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-12-2012 2:41 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

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Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 244 of 353 (648199)
01-13-2012 8:51 PM
Reply to: Message 236 by New Cat's Eye
01-13-2012 2:54 PM


Re: why we are here
You're just equivocating. Those are answers to *how* we are here.
Nope. That is why we are here.
The religious woo-inspired question of "why are we here" is a different question.
It's the same question, it just has a built in assumption of a higher purpose given by some agency that simply has no evidence. Without that assumption, the answer is simply mundane. But it still answers the question, even if it is not to the listeners satisfaction.

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 Message 236 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-13-2012 2:54 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

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 Message 299 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-17-2012 12:58 PM Modulous has replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 277 of 353 (648515)
01-16-2012 9:24 AM


Science can't answer how questions
I mean 'real how', the 'deeper how'. It can answer the physical in terms of the physical, but it can't give metaphysical descriptions for exactly how, in the imminent sense of being itself, things happen.
How do birds sing?
Not the mechanics of birdsong, but how is it that a metaphysical being of actual existence can bring forth the form of beauty and feelings of love within the substance of the soul.
Science cannot address such questions.
Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.
Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 285 of 353 (648539)
01-16-2012 11:55 AM
Reply to: Message 280 by xongsmith
01-16-2012 11:13 AM


why questions that science cannot answer
Cavediver and Modulous and Bluegenes appear to be arguing from the vantage point that all "why" questions can eventually be explained by science.
I'll join bluegenes in an objection to being listed in this group (I'm sure cavediver will likewise object).
My position is that science can and does answer 'why' questions.
My position is that science is very good at doing it.
My position is that science is the best way of answering many 'why' questions.
There are plenty of 'why' questions that science cannot answer, for example:
Why is Mozart better than Beethoven?
Why do birds suddenly appear, every time, you are near? *
Why do purposeful green ideas sleep furiously?
Why does god threaten to torture married people who find people other than their spouse attractive?
Why is it good to help a person who has been beaten and robbed?
Why is evidence a useful tool in determining truth?
Why does the imminent universal creative spirit cause things to be?
Why did god create man?
Why did god make the sky blue?
Why is there something rather than nothing?**
The easiest way to think of one for yourself is to ask a why question that assumes something that is not a scientific issue. Aesthetics, ethics, metaphysics, theology etc.
* unless it is actually true that birds suddenly appear when you are near, then the answer is likely to not only be because the birds want to be close to the person in question - which seems true by definition (unless the answer is that the person is suffering from confirmation bias or something, I guess) - but also science can in principle find out why birds want to be close to the person.
** Science may give an answer to this (though I am highly skeptical of this), but I have a feeling that whatever answer may be found, someone can easily just ask of it '...but why?', for infinity
Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.

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 Message 280 by xongsmith, posted 01-16-2012 11:13 AM xongsmith has replied

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Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 293 of 353 (648558)
01-16-2012 2:14 PM
Reply to: Message 290 by xongsmith
01-16-2012 1:47 PM


Re: why questions that science cannot answer
Consider a painter selecting to mix on her palette a certain color. If we has the entire brain scan by equipment advanced enough to record all manner of things from the moment of hew consciousness leading up to the moment she went to make the color, is it not possible that - with the in-depth understanding via the equipment - scientists could explain the color and give a "why" for the reason she made it?
That was the position I took earlier, especially with jar.
Is this a free will issue?
I don't think so...
Is the equipment revealing how she is predestined to pick that mix of pigments to get that color and why she likes that color?
It is only a free will issue if you define 'free' as being 'free of deterministic laws'. If you are talking about free will meaning 'the capacity of making decisions without external duress', then it isn't a free will issue.
Is the extent to which science cannot answer a "why" question linked to the extent that free will is a factor?
Only if we assume there is a dualistic non-deterministic 'will' in operation. This goes back to my point about asking
quote:
a why question that assumes something that is not a scientific issue
If we instead assume that will is just a complex mechanistic thing (ie., an evidenced will), we can answer why questions about it to our hearts content

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Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 301 of 353 (648663)
01-17-2012 1:12 PM
Reply to: Message 299 by New Cat's Eye
01-17-2012 12:58 PM


unstated assumptions
Its still answering an equivocation, not the question that was asked (which had certain underlying assuptions that you removed).
If you want to say 'Science can't answer questions that make unstated assumptions that we stipulate are uninvestigatable through science' then yes, obviously. I believe I said largely the same earlier.
Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.
Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.

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