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Author | Topic: Professional Debate: Scientific Evidence for/against Evolution… “Any Takers?” | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 314 days) Posts: 16113 Joined:
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I shall as usual ignore your silly irrelevant and dishonest blather and ask you, once again, what steps you have taken to procure a creationist interested in participating in this project.
I'm ready when you are.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 314 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
(Dishonest, impertinent, and willfully stupid whining snipped.) I am still ready whenever you are; and I should still like to know what steps you have taken to procure the participation of a creationist. Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 314 days) Posts: 16113 Joined:
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BTW I just don't think any of them have the guts to accept the challenge ... A curious delusion which would have been cured by actually reading the thread. What the thread does not contain is any evidence of a creationist willing to participate; or evidence that Eye-Squared R has been willing to look for one.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 314 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
The challenge has been issued. Do have what it takes to accept. Yes. That is why I have in fact accepted.
Its your choice. You have been called out. Step up to the plate. I'm ready whenever he is. He should now put up or shut up.
Let the debate begin. Indeed. But first he'll have to get a creationist to participate. And since every time I ask him what steps he's taking to do that he starts whining and blubbing and screaming and lying, I don't believe that he's tried, or that he's ever going to. Why can't the coward even try to find one creationist to join in the debate? I haven't seen anyone run so fast and so far from his own challenge since Kent Hovind. If you're so eager to see the debate begin, why don't you find a creationist for him? Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given. Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 314 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
Eye-Squared-R, in the OP, writes: So this thread topic is narrowly defined. The question is:
Are you willing to engage in a professionally moderated publishable debate on behalf of evolution? The answer is YES. If there any part of "YES" that you don't understand, then creationists ought to make you their king, since that would be incomprehension even beyond the dreams of Gish or Hovind. Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given. Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 314 days) Posts: 16113 Joined:
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I don't have too find them for him. No, but it would be helpful if you want the debate to begin, since he hasn't produced any.
What he does not have is a firm commitment from evolutionist. Which part of "YES" do you not understand? Is it the consonants that are giving you trouble or the vowel?
After it has gone this far do you think you can walk away and not do the debate without egg on your face? I am not walking away. I am standing here asking him to bring it on. And every time I do so the coward runs away and hides, usually for weeks at a time. Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 314 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
You saying yes is not a SIGNED FIRM COMMITMENT. It is, however, a "FIRM COMMITMENT". What is this "SIGNED" nonsense? How do I sign my name on this forum, and where did he ask me to?
You need a team that can cover the 5 disciplines outlined. Why shift the goalposts? I am in no need of a team --- but he is in need of an excuse. Here's what he wrote in his OP:
The OP writes: The proposal for this thread is to establish who among the intelligent and educated EVC proponents of universal common descent (neo-Darwinism) would represent evolution in a formal written debate exclusively regarding the scientific evidence. The debate would occur outside the confines of EVC Forum and would be publishable.
A single individual or an entire team of EVC folks could participate and collaborate in written responses on behalf of evolution - but at least one team member should be qualified with a Ph. D. in a technical field (to offer bona-fide credibility for potential publishers). I am a "single individual" (is there another kind of individual?) I have a Ph.D. in a technical field. I am ready whenever he is.
You have already said you did not have the ability to cover all the subjects. This is, of course, not true.
First order of business is the challenge. He has done that.
Second the Firm Commitment to debate. I have done that.
He presents his team ... And that's what we're waiting for.
Once the debate begins the affirmer states his case and presents his evidence. Then the opposing side presents the rebutal. The affirmer is allowed to rebut the rebutal The opposing side then presents final rebutal. These pappers must be written in a publishable form. It will be very time consuming as you will only get two chances to state your case. Then the debate moves on. This is the way all debates I was in on the debate team was conducted except we put our cases and evidence together and then met face to face with a time limit for presentation and then a short time for rebutal. I don't think that this is what he has in mind. We are, after all, talking about a book, not a pamphlet.
So why not get somebody in Myers or Dawkins league to help you and go for it. Because that was not what I was asked to do in the OP. If it is now his position that I need, not to participate in his project myself, but rather to persuade PZ Myers or Richard Dawkins to do so, then I think this is a contemptible way of evading the debate. But so far as I can see this is your excuse, not his. Again, let me remind you of his OP:
The OP writes: The proposal for this thread is to establish who among the intelligent and educated EVC proponents of universal common descent (neo-Darwinism) would represent evolution in a formal written debate exclusively regarding the scientific evidence. The debate would occur outside the confines of EVC Forum and would be publishable.
A single individual or an entire team of EVC folks could participate and collaborate in written responses on behalf of evolution - but at least one team member should be qualified with a Ph. D. in a technical field (to offer bona-fide credibility for potential publishers). If you now want Richard Dawkins to participate, or if he now insists that I produce a professional cosmologist, then this seems to me to be a paltry excuse for evading debate. He has exactly what he originally asked for --- an EvC member with a Ph.D. in a technical field who is ready and willing to represent evolution. If he now wishes to slime his way out of it, that's his problem.
I am glad you are not walking away. But you are not meeting the requirements for the debate to move to step 2. I have made a firm commitment to debate, from which the coward has run like a frightened little bunny-rabbit.
You are like a 6 year old standing on a soap box yelling at his daddy bring it on you big bully, you just full of hot air. I am rather more like a 36-year-old not standing on a soapbox and saying to a halfwitted poltroon: "Bring it on you sniveling little coward --- you're full of shit." Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given. Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 314 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
ICANT writes: I really think this is what he is wanting you to commit to doing, And I thought it was this:
Eye-Squared-R, in the OP, writes: So this thread topic is narrowly defined. The question is:
Are you willing to engage in a professionally moderated publishable debate on behalf of evolution? The answer is YES. I am sick of his ducking and weaving and evasions and excuses. He has a YES. If he won't take YES for an answer, that's his problem.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 314 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
You are agreeing to debate as normal debating is done here on EvC. I must have missed where I said that. Perhaps you could quote me doing so, or perhaps you could continue to chase the magic butterflies in the fairyland in your head.
He did ask you specifically if you were willing to give a firm commitment to supporting the things I presented to you. Which things? I ask because your excuses for him not advancing the debate appear to be rather different from his.
Or just sit there saying yes until he gets tired of waiting. For what? For me to say something other than yes? I am ready to debate when he produces some creationists. I shall not get tired of waiting, because this is not a fatiguing process. Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 314 days) Posts: 16113 Joined:
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This whole thread has been silly. Why are you trolling internet chat/debate rooms ... Because he's a troll?
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 314 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
Perhaps you could find some thread where your lies and nonsense are on topic.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 314 days) Posts: 16113 Joined:
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* bumped to make derisive clucking noises *
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 314 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
Hello Dr. Adequate,
Dr Adequate responding to ICANT in Message 104 writes:
Competent, qualified, and professional married individuals are also welcome to firmly commit to engage in a publishable debate for neo-Darwinism.
The OP writes: The proposal for this thread is to establish who among the intelligent and educated EVC proponents of universal common descent (neo-Darwinism) would represent evolution in a formal written debate exclusively regarding the scientific evidence. The debate would occur outside the confines of EVC Forum and would be publishable.
A single individual or an entire team of EVC folks could participate and collaborate in written responses on behalf of evolution - but at least one team member should be qualified with a Ph. D. in a technical field (to offer bona-fide credibility for potential publishers). I am a "single individual" (is there another kind of individual?) Dr Adequate in Message 104 to ICANT writes: I have a Ph.D. in a technical field. I am ready whenever he is. I’ve researched the interest of publishers in a mathematics degree for debating science. For example, Anglagaard in Message 39 graciously offered a link to the Opposing Viewpoints series from Greenhaven Press. When I was hopeful we could secure firm commitments here from many qualified experts, I inquired concerning Greenhaven Press’ interest in a professional debate for publication. The Managing Editor was Elizabeth (Betz) Des Chenes and here is her reply (pertaining to folks such as you doc): Greenhaven Press does not accept unsolicited manuscripts; if you wish to submit an e-resume, however, we would be happy to consider you for future projects (in your area of expertise, if at all possible) (bold emphasis mine). Of the hundreds of ‘opposing viewpoints’ topics on the website, you might guess that none of them are debates concerning opposing viewpoints in math. If you are sincere Dr. Adequate, you may request the email address of Ms. Des Chenes, the managing editor, from me and I will gladly provide it (it’s not on the web site). You could submit your e-resume to validate your lack of professional credentials (with a Liberal Arts Mathematics degree) to Greenhaven Press (or any other publishers) for the debate topic concerning the science of neo-Darwinism. You declined to acknowledge any of the concerns detailed in Message 86, repeated here (with some additional comments) for your convenience.
Referencing part of Message 86:
You have adequately detailed your lack of marketability as a qualified leader of a debate team for neo-Darwinism in a professional written publishable format, Dr. Adequate. Further, your demonstrated debate skills at EvC Forum are primarily sarcasm and insults. Your argument is not with me whether you’re a viable candidate to lead a professional debate team with credentials and competencies attractive to publishers. Your argument is with yourself doc. But you’re not alone arguing with yourself your Administrators here at EvC Forum have repeatedly suspended you and ultimately banned you from participating in the Human Origins and Evolution forum.
Honest self-assessment is appropriate in a professional setting doc. You were not repeatedly suspended and finally banned by your home team moderators because you were ‘asking for evidence’. You could gain credibility by taking ownership and responsibility for your behavior. And you continue in Message 101 and Message 104
Dr. Adequate in Message 101 to ICANT writes: I am not walking away. I am standing here asking him to bring it on. And every time I do so the coward runs away and hides, usually for weeks at a time.Dr. Adequate in Message 104 to ICANT writes:
My delays are intentional doc. I give you and others plenty of time between posts to respond to my requests and to build a strong firmly committed professional debate team for evolution. I also observe styles, competencies, and character of folks posting here over time. Beyond that, we’ve had two weddings with extensive travel, including my lovely daughter’s wedding, dealt with the terminal illness and death of my father-in-law (an exemplary Viet Nam veteran who enlisted as a private and retired a Full Colonel), and more recently the recovery after heart surgery and subsequent untimely death of my cherished father.
I have made a firm commitment to debate, from which the coward has run like a frightened little bunny-rabbit Read this carefully doc and remember itQualifications and character are key requirements for most publishers. Your steadfast decision ‘to ignore’ and keep dodging the science and the requests (click link) in this thread has demonstrated absolutely no reason for anyone to ‘run’ from you doc. I’ve stated repeatedly there is no rush in this process. We’re not interested in who can hurl the most macho sarcastic insults. Dr. Adequate in Message 104 to ICANT writes:
Your public demeanor degrades under stress Dr. Adequate. I am rather more like a 36-year-old not standing on a soapbox and saying to a halfwitted poltroon: "Bring it on you sniveling little coward --- you're full of shit."Your responses appeal to emotions of the ignoble sort rather than to rational observers. Interested folks will note your inability to address the exercises in science detailed in the examples listed in Message 71 and additional requests in Message 72 where your earlier baseless claims were dealt with. Your typical response to ignore multiple requests (as in Message 81) is not exemplary. Anyone can do that. You’ve struggled to engage in constructive dialogue (click link) in this thread as well as others. It’s unclear how you could imagine that your performance in this thread makes folks afraid of you The best we can say at this time is your behavior is consistently derisive and unprofessional (click link). Considering your suspensions, recent banning from discussing evolution at EvC Forum, sensitivity to unspecified ‘snipped’ offenses (click link) in response to Message 86, preoccupation with ‘cojones’ in Message 59 and Message 68, combined with other attributes including your plea for help finding employment, and your overall behavioral tendencies in this threadyou may find this link helpful Dr. Adequate. I’m not a doctor but the description and symptoms are clearly found throughout this thread.I offer this sincerely and I hope you’ll give it careful consideration. We can’t determine whether this is a general pattern in your life but your friends care Dr. Adequate. This isn’t personal and you shouldn’t take it that way. Beyond the fact that you’re banned from debating evolution here at EvC Forum due to your inability to move a debate forward, I take full responsibility that the wording in the Opening Post was such that a Ph.D. in the deductive field of math would consider himself qualified to offer bona-fide credibility for potential publishers concerning the natural and applied sciences. The scientific method draws inductive conclusions (or generalizations) from a finite set of observable data and environments. Those conclusions are falsifiable by definition of the method. Inductive generalizations are often falsified with additional observations and/or other environments.Science is different from the deductive practice in math — where relationships are proven and final (unequivocal fact). Unfortunately, you have no credentials in the inductive field of science utilizing the scientific method Dr. Adequate. Therefore, since the primary objective of this thread is a publishable debate and qualifications are tantamount to quality for publishers, I will revise the OP to indicate a Ph. D. in the natural or applied sciences where the inductive reasoning of the scientific method is applied. I will also include in the revision a requirement for demonstrated ability to function in a professional constructive manner — since this will be a requirement for publishers. The overriding objective for this thread is to assemble the best possible team for a publishable debate. I wish you were a viable candidate as the Leader of a professional evolution debate team in a publishable format Dr. Adequate. But you’re not for all the reasons mentioned.
Eye-Squared in Message 86 (with some edits added for clarity) writes: It’s really easy to make a FIRM commitment, doctor, if you have confidence in your beliefs and abilities.I’ll repeat the requirements for you:
Dr Adequate in Message 104 to ICANT Finally states a 'Firm Commitment’ and writes:
OK doc, please review items A, A1, A2, and A3 above from Message 86 (click link) and confirm that your words "FIRM COMMITMENT" are in agreement. If you ignore and refuse to respond to this request for confirmation as you have with all the other requests you’ve ignored in this thread, then you will not be considered seriously either by me or most interested observers. It is, however, a "FIRM COMMITMENT" The good news for you doc (if you’re sincere and follow through with the requests) is you could still participate in the proposed publishable debate if you were able to secure firm commitment from at least one marketable Ph. D. in the natural or applied sciences — assuming they valued your ability for constructive dialogue and desired your contributions on the debate team. I’ve requested this of you repeatedly and you’ve evidently made no effort. I’ve suggested Cavediver as a possible leader of your team since he offered in Message 34 to debate cosmology. Unless I’m mistaken, I believe Cavediver has a Ph. D. in physics which could be marketable for publishers. There are also plenty of other marketable folks here at EvC Forum with Ph. D.s in the natural or applied sciences. Have you solicited anyone doc? Have you made any effort at all? Will you even acknowledge or answer these questions? Further, I will make every effort and take plenty of time to gain firm commitments in all the disciplines listed previously. If you’re sincere about a written publishable debate, I request — again — that you help in that effort. If you’re not sincere doc, you’ll likely persist with ignoring (or ducking - click here) and clucking (click here) posts of an ‘undesirable’ nature. If you’ve made no effort Dr. Adequate, then we can only conclude you’re more interested in personal puffery here than assembling the most qualified and marketable debate team possible to represent evolution (random mutations and natural selection).
After firm commitments are secured, and not before firm commitments are secured for the most qualified and capable team possible, then we’ll advance to Step 2 and get this debate train rolling down the tracks with formal contracts to begin the process. You probably don’t believe this but I’m trying to help you Dr. Adequate. I want you and the team representing evolution (random mutations and natural selection) to have every opportunity to be as successful as possible in a published presentation and defense of neo-Darwinism. Let me know if you’d like to discuss anything further in private, assuming you are interested in advancing this effort.Regardless, a thoughtful and professional response would be appreciated. All the Best, Eye-Squared-R So, to summarize: you're still trying to wriggle your way out of it. You know, you could have said so much more concisely.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 314 days) Posts: 16113 Joined:
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The Troll
He comes to us on hands and kneesand whimpers: "Kick me if you dare" --- but when I say: "Just as you please" he finds he has to be elsewhere, and on his yellow belly crawlsto safety for a month or two. A month or two goes by; he bawls: "Now kick me" ... as I raise my shoe, he flinches from the sturdy leatherand finds he'll let the matter pass: explaining that he's doubtful whether I'm really fit to kick his ass; and though my offers are profuseto kick him as he claims to crave he always snivels some excuse and hides back in his trollish cave --- wherein he prides himself uponhow no-one dares to take him on. |
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 314 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
I can't be bothered to read through his vast slabs of nonsense. But he's still chicken, right?
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