Why is Israel the good guys????

http://www.elftor.com/elftor.php?number=166I was just reading this and got a kick outta of it I have been reading alot about Isreal vs. Palestine lately, what's the deal? Why is the US on Isreals side? History seems to make it obvious that they basicaly stole the land from palestine not to unlike the US once did to the native americans.The Isrealy atrocities against palestine far outweigh palestines efforts. So what on earth is the deal? Why does the US support this country?Is it truely religiously motivated?

Yes, but should the Zionists have had a foothold in the first place?Obviously, it was a flawed idea aimed at compensating the Jews after WWII by the britts. Then, the UN voted Isreal a state, yet never asked the arabs! I belive that was the only time the UN ever ruled a foreign minority sovreign.What's the deal? It seems to me that the only claim to the land, is the Bible. It seems that all this Armageddon nonsense is becoming a self fullfilling prophecy. People belive it so bad, they are determined to make it happen But I digress, if the jews were put there by way of flawed polatics, what the hell are they still doing there? It was never their land, it was taken away from the palestinians, thrugh violence, deception, and economic leverage. That just ain't right, by any stretch.

Well, I dunno.Now, please educate me if I'm wrong. But why should the Zionists have been let in? They had no claim to the land. I know Arab Jews lived there before the Zionists, and there had been a steady influx of russian Jews as well. And they were living happily side by side with the Muslims.But then the Zionists came along and demanded a Jewish homeland. This makes no sesne! Acording to my handy dandy Encyclopedia Britanica , the story goes that the Zionists have been asking for such political recognition way back in the mid 1800's. But they were allways laughed at, even by other Jews. It was a riddiculous idea, and they faild to find sympathy.As time went on, the dutch, offered the Zionists a whole chunk of land in Africa. Really nice land by all accounts, but the Zionists wanted Palestine. And they were wheeling and dealing with the britts to get it for a long time to no avail.Then WWII happens, everyone feels sorry for the Jews (rightly so), and the Zionists finnaly have a reason to be given a louder voice. Now, instead of just imigrating to Palestine, and becoming part of that society as Jews had been doing for centuries, the Zionists wanted a chunk of palestine for jews only!Tell me something, does that sound like a free society?Anyway, to make a long story short. The Zionists founded isreal, and insidiously expanded their borders thrugh economic leverage, violence, and subterfuge. Due to lobbying, and US support, the nation of Isreal was recognized by the UN. Even though the Jews were a minority people in a predominantly muslem country.So why do you think, the Zionists should have been allowd the land? Now, this is the history of it as I have read it. If you know more please enlighten me.

Well, that's the thing. They were never bared from the county to begin with. Jews had been living and imigrating there for ages. But the ZIONISTS said, "we want a nice fat chunk of the good land in your country."What if Cannada petitioned the un to anex the midwest, and call it New Canada. That's not imigration. That's just screwd up!The Zionists belived, in their founding doctrines, that they have a claim to the land as ordained by Mosess in the Bible. That's the basis for isreal. No one was saying the Jews coulden't come to palestine and settle, it was the whole "lets found a brand new nation despite what the people who live there think" idea.Do you understand where I'm comming from? Or am I getting the story wrong? Please let me know of any finer details I may be unware of.

Ah! Thank you PaulK, for clearing up my foggy memory on some of the historical facts. It was the britts not the Dutch.In any case, you are right, Zionisim started out as a secular movement. But the early Zionists, were soon overtaken by rabinical Jews. After WWII, the Zionist movement became a philosophy quickly adopted by religious Jews as well. And you are right, at first they wanted power thrugh political means, yet their demands, IMO, were absurd.The idea that due to Jewsish persecution they deserve a homelands is rediculous. Should the Rom be given a chunk of Romania and India due to their persecution?Im not saying that Imagration should have been stoped, but a Jewsish state should have never happend. The jews should have just imigrated there and become part of the palestinian culture as they had for years. They don't deserve a state just cuz they were opressed.Why should Isreal even exist? The palestinians were there for a long time, and are the majority peoples of the region. How on earth can a foreign peoples sudden, and arbitrary, institution of a state be justified?As I said before, If Canada or Mexico suddenly took a good chunk of the US, and decalerd it a new nation. Are we supposed to say ok... they were persecuted once. (well, maybe not Canada )

LOL

Cool! Any good book sugestions you know of, on the subject?

Yes, but the resentment was fostered by the way the jews aquired the land. Leveriging the economy with US and Europen wealth, buying out palestinian buissnesses etc. then to add insult to injury, being declared a state despite the predominantly arab population.It's all very fucked up it seems. And to tell you the truth, the more I read about the issue. I agree, there is no good guy The feeling I get from this the more I look into it it's a profound feeling of disgust and shame. It is shamefull to me that this sort of thing goes in in the world today, in a world with so much knowledge, technology, etc. People can squable over dirt and a handfull of myths to the detriment of their very own humanity.It seems like Gulivers travels to me. The liliputians are at war because they like to crach their eggs bottom side first. Shamefull.

Both sides. One more overtly. At least the Arabs don't try to hide it. Check out the frag meter for both sides, I think you can see isreal is scoring way higher. The US has supported Irag, Libia, and other so calld "enemies" at one time or another. Oh? So farmers are better than Nomads, so they deserve the land? BS. Who cares who built it. If someone takes your farm and puts in a strip mall, does it make it better cuz he made your land "more productive"None the less, as it was pointed out earlier in the thread, the Arabs didn't use the land for the same purposes. What??? SO now you have a Jewish theocracy. And don't you realize that most islamic fundamentalits dictatorships that we deal with today arose after isreal, arguably as a result of our supporty for isreal. Syria is a good example. Don't we have heros who "fought and died for their country" etc. That's what they are doing. What's the diffrence? They feel they are opressed, so they are fighting against it.The isrealies kill just as many palestinian civilians all the time. I think you would be pushed to your limits too if a govt. were buldozing your neighborhood everywhere you went.Do you think suicide bombers come from nowhere? It's an act of desperation by a desparete people, with no real military infrastructure! They belive this, so what! Are they wrong? It has still yet to be shown that somehow Isreal deserves a state. They could have just integrated with the arabs who are the majority. HEll, break enugh treaties and anyone will bitch about signing them dony ya think?