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Author Topic:   The accelerating expanding universe
Alfred Maddenstein
Member (Idle past 3996 days)
Posts: 565
Joined: 04-01-2011


Message 140 of 149 (613799)
04-27-2011 1:31 PM
Reply to: Message 136 by Oli
04-27-2011 9:37 AM


Re: Relativity
Oli writes:
Alfred Maddenstein writes:
Just saying that you do not see how anything fits together is not good at all, I am afraid.
Indeed, apologies.
From what I’ve read, Mayer's logic goes something like this:
1) Einstein did not properly understand Minkowski's idea of time in special relativity as a geometric effect.
2) So when Einstein worked out general relativity he didn't properly take these ideas into account. Mayer writes: A fundamental conceptual error occurred at the beginning of his quest to unify special relativity with accelerated reference frames.
3) Cosmological models based on GR are therefore flawed.
4) Mayer introduces cosmological latitude Ϛ: an angular parameter relative to any arbitrary point of observation in the Cosmos. The different values of Ϛ map out a circle, with the time directions everywhere perpendicular to it.
5) Comparing the rates of clocks at different values of Ϛ gives the cosmological redshift for light travelling between them.
My first problem is that 2 is just not true. As I understand it, the equivalence principle from which Einstein derived GR says that in a freely-falling laboratory in a small part of spacetime the laws of physics are those of special relativity. Mathematically, this means that in a small region around every point the geometry can be described exactly as in 1 (in an appropriate coordinate system). Minkowski’s spacetime is the foundation of GR.
Also, the quote in 2 reveals Mayer’s lack of understanding since special relativity has no problem dealing with accelerated reference frames.
Secondly, it is not made clear how 2 leads to 4, although I guess this kind of leap is ok if the conclusion is supported by experiment.
However, the book doesn’t give a metric for the proposed four dimensional spacetime in 4, or a lot of mathematical details about how this comes about. Only two dimensions are described. Also, it doesn’t reference the matter in the universe and how that justifies the chosen geometry. GR says that the matter and energy distribution of the universe results in curvature of spacetime. How does Mayer explain gravity if he’s not taking general relativity into account?
Oli
Well, the geometrical reasoning appears to me sound though whether that true or not finally may only be decided experimentally. He claims the geometry is bound to explain GPS satellites anomalies.
It seems that the anomalies still remain unexplained otherwise.
Also, the last time I checked what exactly was gravity nobody had a slightest clue. It appears to be an intrinsic aspect of motion just like time is, so that should be only natural if there found to be a geometrical parallelism between gravity and time.
Another consideration is that comparing his predictions and those of the standard model I checked the databases through the hyperlinks provided and if the standard model is not flawed but the guy is simply too stupid to realise its correctness, then how come his predictions fit the data so nicely while the correct model's are off the mark by several orders of magnitude?
Edited by Alfred Maddenstein, : grammar

This message is a reply to:
 Message 136 by Oli, posted 04-27-2011 9:37 AM Oli has not replied

  
Alfred Maddenstein
Member (Idle past 3996 days)
Posts: 565
Joined: 04-01-2011


Message 141 of 149 (613800)
04-27-2011 1:44 PM
Reply to: Message 138 by cavediver
04-27-2011 11:11 AM


Re: Relativity
cavediver writes:
This is from one of Mayer's papers...
...and is complete bollocks, much like the rest of his site. Funny how he has no model to back this up, and no metric as Oli points out. This guy is so clueless, he doesn't even realise how the concept of a "black hole" arises. He thinks that as long as he can squeeze in enough buzz words and cool sounding jargon, that he may just pass for someone who knows what he is talking about. Unfortunately, he is just one big epic fail.
What he is suggesting was called Einstein-Rosen bridge the last time I checked

This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by cavediver, posted 04-27-2011 11:11 AM cavediver has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 142 by fearandloathing, posted 04-27-2011 2:04 PM Alfred Maddenstein has replied
 Message 143 by cavediver, posted 04-27-2011 2:32 PM Alfred Maddenstein has not replied

  
Alfred Maddenstein
Member (Idle past 3996 days)
Posts: 565
Joined: 04-01-2011


Message 144 of 149 (613812)
04-27-2011 3:20 PM
Reply to: Message 142 by fearandloathing
04-27-2011 2:04 PM


Re: Relativity
fearandloathing writes:
Hi alf,
Where are the white holes? Where is there any data and observations to even support a model of one?? As far as I can find they are only theoretically possible, and cannot be formed through gravitational collapse.
If Mayer's model of the universe were true then there should be as many white holes as black holes, I think we should be able to observe one if he was right. Where is any evidence of one.
Well, yes, but don't forget that to claim that black holes themselves are anything really observed is a contradiction in terms. Something or other is observed that via a few logical steps is interpreted to be black holes as they are currently conceived. Otherwise they are purely mathematical objects and if the premise behind the maths is wrong, the black holes may evaporate from the public imagination in a couple of decades.
Edited by Alfred Maddenstein, : Grammar

This message is a reply to:
 Message 142 by fearandloathing, posted 04-27-2011 2:04 PM fearandloathing has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 146 by fearandloathing, posted 04-27-2011 3:36 PM Alfred Maddenstein has replied

  
Alfred Maddenstein
Member (Idle past 3996 days)
Posts: 565
Joined: 04-01-2011


Message 147 of 149 (613818)
04-27-2011 3:54 PM
Reply to: Message 146 by fearandloathing
04-27-2011 3:36 PM


Re: Relativity
fearandloathing writes:
Alfred Maddenstein writes:
fearandloathing writes:
Hi alf,
Where are the white holes? Where is there any data and observations to even support a model of one?? As far as I can find they are only theoretically possible, and cannot be formed through gravitational collapse.
If Mayer's model of the universe were true then there should be as many white holes as black holes, I think we should be able to observe one if he was right. Where is any evidence of one.
Well, yes, but don't forget that to claim that black holes themselves are anything really observed is a contradiction in terms. Something or other is observed that via a few logical steps is interpreted to be black holes as they are currently conceived. Otherwise they are purely mathematical objects and if the premise behind the maths is wrong, the black holes may evaporate from the public imagination in a couple of decades.
It seems you are avoiding my question, where is there evidence of white holes?
Mayer's model of the universe depends on white holes if it is to be stable,with no beginning and no end. How else would matter be recycled into new matter for new stars ect...Without this feature of his model then, as I see it, eventually the universe would run out of energy and end in a cold death.
If the math that supports black holes is wrong, then his model is also wrong.
Black holes are observable trough their interaction with the observable...ie stars ect...
Well, he proposes AGN of Seyfert galaxy NGC 1068 as an example of what a white hole is. Otherwise, yes, that is what he claims- the current maths behind black holes as they are currently conceived is skewed, he says.
The interaction with the stars is far from being anything direct. That is nothing like watching my tea-kettle boil I am engaged in right now.
Edited by Alfred Maddenstein, : grammar

This message is a reply to:
 Message 146 by fearandloathing, posted 04-27-2011 3:36 PM fearandloathing has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 148 by fearandloathing, posted 04-27-2011 4:11 PM Alfred Maddenstein has not replied

  
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