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Author Topic:   Our Socioeconomic Position is at Risk
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 133 of 197 (609238)
03-17-2011 3:45 PM
Reply to: Message 132 by xongsmith
03-17-2011 3:27 PM


Re: we dood it to ourselves.
xongsmith writes:
jar writes:
No, I said that WE are responsible for our not having equal influence, that it was our decision to create that situation.
We did it to ourselves.
Oh yeah?, so what?! How does this shed any new light on the situation? How is this "earthshaking" conclusion useful?
How is it that Phat managed to simply say everything you have been unsuccessfully trying to say? I think you owe him a couple of those heaping bowlfuls of monster cookies. He, at least, gave us some of the "so what" of it.
I never claimed it was earthshaking, in fact I have consistently said that it should have been just plain obvious.
It is important though because until WE understand that WE did it to ourselves it is unlikely that WE will even begin thinking about how to fix it.
We decided to repeal the laws that limited concentration of media.
We decided to repeal the laws that limited the creation of a moneyed class.
We created the world we live in and I think it might be useful to see where we screwed up so that just maybe we don't continue making the same mistakes.
I have also said repeatedly that I don't think We will do that.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 132 by xongsmith, posted 03-17-2011 3:27 PM xongsmith has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 136 of 197 (609308)
03-18-2011 10:10 AM
Reply to: Message 135 by Straggler
03-18-2011 7:42 AM


Re: we dood it to ourselves.
Straggler writes:
jar writes:
No, I said that WE are responsible for our not having equal influence, that it was our decision to create that situation. We did it to ourselves.
Well in that sense we might just as well say that everyone is responsible for everything. Where everyone includes every member of the human race past present or future and everything includes everything humanity as a whole ever does.
Or we could stop talking in soundbites and actually use terms meaningfully?
You are free to post what6 ever you want, I have always supported that right.
I post what I think is meaningful and useful and try not to misrepresent what YOU say.
Everyone is responsible and it's about time folk actually realized that, but of course, I have not said what you seem to imply I am saying.
The important thing to remember is that it is only the living adults that can take responsibility. Those that are dead are past accounting. Those that are not yet born or are very young cannot be responsible yet.
However, if the young and those born in the future do not fix what we broke, then yes, they will become responsible.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by Straggler, posted 03-18-2011 7:42 AM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 137 by Straggler, posted 03-18-2011 11:36 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 138 of 197 (609329)
03-18-2011 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 137 by Straggler
03-18-2011 11:36 AM


Re: we dood it to ourselves.
Whether or not they can succeed in changing society is up to them. And yes, I do think that they can wrest back the power and wealth. I don't think they will, but that's totally up to what THEY decide.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 137 by Straggler, posted 03-18-2011 11:36 AM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 139 by Straggler, posted 03-18-2011 12:26 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 140 of 197 (609337)
03-18-2011 12:35 PM
Reply to: Message 139 by Straggler
03-18-2011 12:26 PM


Re: we dood it to ourselves.
I tried and failed, may they do better.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 139 by Straggler, posted 03-18-2011 12:26 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 141 by Straggler, posted 03-18-2011 12:39 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 142 of 197 (609339)
03-18-2011 12:44 PM
Reply to: Message 141 by Straggler
03-18-2011 12:39 PM


Re: we dood it to ourselves.
They have the power, that is called voting. The question is whether they will have the wisdom to effect the needed changes.
It's pretty obvious that old farts like me are the past. We failed. It's their problem now.
If you read what I have written, you will see that I have repeated said I expect that they will fail, and s they will suffer, but it really is up to them. Eventually the pain will get so great that they will make changes. It remains a question as to whether or not they will have the wisdom to make good changes.
For now it is up to YOU to become a vocal advocate for change, to get out there and try to effect change.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by Straggler, posted 03-18-2011 12:39 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 143 by Straggler, posted 03-18-2011 1:11 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 144 of 197 (609344)
03-18-2011 1:26 PM
Reply to: Message 143 by Straggler
03-18-2011 1:11 PM


Re: we dood it to ourselves.
If the situation really is futile, then the proper response is "Aw Tough kid, you're screwed."
I don't happen to think it is futile, but I do think that it going to be very, very difficult and that it will take at best, two generations.
The first step is in figuring out where WE went wrong, then identify the steps needed to try to correct those mistakes.
In the US, I think the first step that is needed is to re-regulate the media, to limit the number of outlets any one voice can control. To do that will require votes, and votes can only be influenced by discussion and there are still a few areas where at least in the US, that is still possible. WE need to be speaking out publicly and trying to influence others.
So first, use the channels that are available to try to build support for change.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 143 by Straggler, posted 03-18-2011 1:11 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 145 by Straggler, posted 03-18-2011 1:43 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 146 of 197 (609348)
03-18-2011 1:48 PM
Reply to: Message 145 by Straggler
03-18-2011 1:43 PM


Re: we dood it to ourselves.
Whatever.
The key point is that WE are all there is to effect change.
And yes, the This Quarter Returns or During my time in office or this election cycle is part of the problem.
But WE are still all there is to effect change.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 145 by Straggler, posted 03-18-2011 1:43 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 147 by Straggler, posted 03-18-2011 2:07 PM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 150 of 197 (609373)
03-18-2011 4:35 PM
Reply to: Message 149 by Straggler
03-18-2011 4:30 PM


Re: we dood it to ourselves.
Straggler writes:
Was the decision to allow Fox to stand as a legitimate news channel really democratically made by a seething mass of the electorate who have a love of biased information?
I would say, kinda yes.
WE really preferred to be told what we wanted to hear.
It's not that they wanted biased information, it is that they never learned how to discriminate.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 149 by Straggler, posted 03-18-2011 4:30 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 151 by Straggler, posted 03-19-2011 12:05 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 153 of 197 (609407)
03-19-2011 2:39 PM
Reply to: Message 151 by Straggler
03-19-2011 12:05 PM


Re: we dood it to ourselves.
It was voted on when WE elected Congressmen that repealed the limits on the number of outlets that could be held by any one person, when WE voted to elect Congressmen that voted to repeal the Fairness Doctrine and when WE voted to allow the repeal of the Chinese Wall between News and opinion/entertainment.
WE continue to vote for that by watching and supporting the programs and advertisers that make up FOX Network.
They is WE, WE is ignorant and woefully uneducated and seem to love it.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 151 by Straggler, posted 03-19-2011 12:05 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 154 by Straggler, posted 03-21-2011 12:40 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 155 of 197 (609565)
03-21-2011 1:20 PM
Reply to: Message 154 by Straggler
03-21-2011 12:40 PM


Re: we dood it to ourselves.
It makes all the difference in the world. If those elected are swayed by lobbying and the voters allow them to stay in office then it is the voters that created the situation.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 154 by Straggler, posted 03-21-2011 12:40 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 156 by Straggler, posted 03-21-2011 1:24 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 157 of 197 (609570)
03-21-2011 1:42 PM
Reply to: Message 156 by Straggler
03-21-2011 1:24 PM


Re: we dood it to ourselves.
Then the voters need to vote those elected officials out of office. It is called a recall election.
The point Straggler is that it is only WE that can make a difference. WE can do it peacefully or violently, with as little pain as possible or with very great pain, but only WE can change things.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 156 by Straggler, posted 03-21-2011 1:24 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 158 by Straggler, posted 03-21-2011 2:04 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 159 of 197 (609578)
03-21-2011 2:13 PM
Reply to: Message 158 by Straggler
03-21-2011 2:04 PM


Re: we dood it to ourselves.
Whatever.
Perhaps you have some other suggested actions?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 158 by Straggler, posted 03-21-2011 2:04 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 160 by Straggler, posted 03-22-2011 8:32 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 162 of 197 (609686)
03-22-2011 11:01 AM
Reply to: Message 160 by Straggler
03-22-2011 8:32 AM


Re: we dood it to ourselves.
Straggler writes:
I think it would help if those, such as yourself, who are about to pass onto future generations a system of much diminished democratic power identified that problem to those they hope will solve it rather than hiding behind soundbites like "we dood it to ourselves".
jar writes:
Perhaps you have some other suggested actions?
For what it is worth I will be partaking in the range of peaceful protests that are taking place here in London. The occupation of bank branches and premises owned by other tax dodging multinationals. For the day turning them into libraries, youth centres and other such facilities facing closure due to the cuts we are facing. About Us and Contact Page
There is also a massive march in London this Saturday - About Us and Contact Page
How much difference will any of this make? I dunno. I guess I am hopefully pessimistic.
Good for you. I can personally attest that such efforts do work although often at a high cost. It does have to be a continuing effort though in spite of the personal costs.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 160 by Straggler, posted 03-22-2011 8:32 AM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 163 by Straggler, posted 03-28-2011 6:21 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 164 of 197 (610228)
03-28-2011 10:49 AM
Reply to: Message 163 by Straggler
03-28-2011 6:21 AM


Re: Reporting Back.....
Straggler writes:
Times change. But the question remains as to whether we can change the times.
Well, I still see no other possible source for change that "We".
Glad you went, glad the cost was as low as it was, hope you can continue to fight the good fight.
I can assure you, from personal experience, that WE can change the times. The problem is to keep We remembering that change is continuous and a few victories do not determine the outcome of the war.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 163 by Straggler, posted 03-28-2011 6:21 AM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 165 by Straggler, posted 03-28-2011 1:14 PM jar has replied
 Message 167 by Phat, posted 03-29-2011 6:22 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 166 of 197 (610236)
03-28-2011 1:26 PM
Reply to: Message 165 by Straggler
03-28-2011 1:14 PM


Re: Reporting Back.....
Some news but the emphasis was on kids spray painting and breaking windows at the Ritz.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 165 by Straggler, posted 03-28-2011 1:14 PM Straggler has not replied

  
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