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Author | Topic: Did the Biblical Exodus ever happen? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Buzsaw writes:
"Sea of reeds" doesn't correspond to the sandbar that you claim was the crossing point. And then there's I Kings 9:26 which includes the Gulf of Aqaba as being the "sea of reeds" "I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Buzsaw writes:
You're ignoring the fact that your claims do not fit the Biblical account. Tying your claims about the Exodus story to the Exodus story is not a waste of time. Why don't you guys stop these baseless time wasting blind assertions...? Once and for all, why don't you address the issues? Nuweiba is much too far away from Egypt. It would have taken weeks to march the children of Israel that far, a time frame which is not reflected in the Bible. The story suggests that Pharaoh gave chase almost immediately and caught up almost immediately. According to the story, the children of Israel were not trapped. God told them to fool Pharaoh into thinking they were lost so that He could show them that He was still in charge of the situation. That ruse didn't require them to go hundreds of miles in the wrong direction. You have to expalin those discrepancies before anything you find at Nuweiba has any relevance. "I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Buzsaw writes:
Remember that Moses made his first trip to Midian before the Exodus:
The Biblical record of the Exodus links Moses's location after the crossing as Midian. quote:You have the same problem there as with the Exodus: There was no reason to travel all the way to the Arabian Peninsula to escape Pharaoh's wrath. The Sinai Peninsula was remote enough. "I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Buzsaw writes:
Exactly. Moses didn't have to escape very far, just out of sight, out of mind. The Sinai Peninsula was plenty far enough. And your own argument is that the Israelites escaped to the same place. Ringo writes:
LOL. What army is going to go after or even care about one man? Remember that Moses made his first trip to Midian before the Exodus: "I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Buzsaw writes:
On the contrary, there's a whole range of ways to describe a location, some more specific than others. I tell people all the time that I'm in Canada. Sometimes, I tell them more precisely that I'm in the province of Saskatchewan (if I think they might have a clue where that is). I'm almost never more specific than that. If an author would state where the Matterhorn was, the author would not say it was in Europe. One would say it is in Switzerland. It's just silly to suggest that Paul "must" have meant the Arabian Peninsula just because he wasn't specific about which province. After all, he was writing to an audience that probably didn't know much about Arabia. "I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Buzsaw writes:
If you want to make that claim, you have to address the rebuttals. So far, all you've done is ignore the sound reasons for rejecting your claims. Nobody can henceforth truthfully allege that Buzsaw has cited no supportive I say supportive evidence for the Biblical Exodus. Let's try again: Why would the children of Israel travel hundreds of miles out of their way to trap Pharaoh? Why would Moses travel to the far side of Aqaba to escape Egyptian justice? Geographically, Nuweiba makes no sense.
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Buzsaw writes:
That video is a waste of time. All it shows is a recreation of what Moller expected to find. And if you need a good look at the debris, take five minutes or so and watch Lennart Mollart's claimed evidence. "I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Buzsaw writes:
Did your eyes and mind fail to notice the label that said "Re-creation" at about 8:20?
Did your eyes and mind hone in on that phenomenal, in tact, axle and wheel table like form in the video? Buzsaw writes:
Because it was drawn to look that way. If so, tell the folks why or why not it appeared to be in the shape of an axle and wheels. "I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Buzsaw writes:
The point is that there is nothing but the enhancement. There is no indication that Moller actually found anything inside the coral formation. There is nothing in that video except a flight of fancy. Anyone can see the recreated enhancement is deliberate so as to help visualize what formed the coral formations. "I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Buzsaw writes:
I have no stake in this debate. I would love to see evidence of the Exodus, the Flood, Bigfoot, alien abductions, etc. The world is full of weird and wonderful things and inquiring minds are eager to know them if they are supported by evidence. I understand that the secularists have a huge stake in this debate. But all your video shows is wishful thinking. "This is what a coral formation would look like if I drew chariot wheels on it." If Moller was interested in serious research, he could/should/would have documented the (supposed) debris field photographically and mapped every (suspected) artifact for future reference. At the very, very least, he could/should/would have put something in the picture to show the scale. How do we know that those coral formations are the right size to be chariot wheels? How do we know they aren't one foot in diameter or twelve feet in diameter? It isn't a matter of skeptics being too skeptical. It's a matter of you being far too credulous. By all means, lets find evidence to support Bible history but not by jumping on the bandwagon of every charlatan who's out to sell a video. "I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Buzsaw writes:
Even if that was true, it isn't a falsification. There's nothing in the Biblical account that suggests a "land bridge". There's nothing about the depth of the water at all. Btw, the clip which I provided shows Mollar's scientific method of falsification. He researched the Red Sea topography in the region of the long acclaimed traditional Mt Sinai, finding it much deeper and more rugged, lacking any corroborative evidence. Making up a fictional shallow spot does nothing but diminish the extent of the miracle. God could have given the Israelites a dry path through the Mariana Trench if He wanted to. "I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Buzsaw writes:
If a "mighty rush of water" significantly altered the topography, then it would have done the same thing anywhere else and your whole "land bridge" argument becomes irrelevant. You're assuming that the mighty rush of water would have caused no erosion of a larger delta from the wadi canyon and that nothing changed during the event and over the millennia since the event from shipping and currents, earth quakes etc. "I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Buzsaw writes:
What does a black topped mountain have to do with anything? Where does the Biblical account say anything about a black topped mountain? Even the bush that God spoke through wasn't burnt. The fact that there is even a black topped mountain in the right succession to my row of ducks lends some (I say some) credence to it's significance. "I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Buzsaw writes:
You remind me of the old children's joke:
... neglecting the big conglomerate picture. "This is a picture of a cow eating grass." "Where's the grass?" "The cow ate it all." "Where's the cow?" "Why would he stick around when all the grass is gone?" The grass can't corroborate the cow because the grass isn't there. The cow can't corroborate the grass because the cow isn't there. Two things that don't exist can't corroborate each other. There is no picture. "I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Buzsaw writes:
You haven't challenged anybody. If the children of Israel did cross the Gulf of Aqaba at Nuweiba, that wouldn't present the slightest problem to anything I believe. I'd be more than happy to accept it, so you can stop lying about that. I expect that when my stuff effectively challenges the positions of the majority counterparts. The issue is that you've presented no evidence that hasn't been soundly refuted. You don't even seem to have any understanding of what evidence is. You can't just keep claiming that it supports your position when you've been shown that it doesn't. On top of that, most of your claims flat-out contradict what the Bible says. You can have brevity and clarify, or you can have accuracy and detail, but you can't easily have both. --Percy
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