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Member (Idle past 4828 days) Posts: 360 From: Phoenix Arizona USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Evolving the Musculoskeletal System | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 315 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
I did respond Percy. Why don't you respond with evidence that a sophisticated system can be created without intelligence? All your survival of the fittest theory can show is death of the unfit. If you don't know what natural selection is, I suggest that you find out. We'll wait for you.
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ICdesign Member (Idle past 4828 days) Posts: 360 From: Phoenix Arizona USA Joined: |
natural selection
Show me the observable evidence of natural selection developing sophisticated systems.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 315 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
Show me the observable evidence of natural selection developing sophisticated systems. Show me the observable evidence of a dog cremating the world in six ways.
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nwr Member Posts: 6412 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
ICdesign writes:
No, you cannot. In fact you cannot even adequately define "intelligence". There's no clear consensus on what the word means.I can prove all day long that it takes intelligence to build a system. Jesus was a liberal hippie
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9202 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.4 |
I can prove all day long that it takes intelligence to build a system. How about showing one proof? Remember you said you could prove. Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given. Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
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ICdesign Member (Idle past 4828 days) Posts: 360 From: Phoenix Arizona USA Joined: |
nwr writes:
Oh yes I can. No, you cannot. In fact you cannot even adequately define "intelligence". There's no clear consensus on what the word means.I think its pretty brave of you to announce you have no clue what intelligence is. Let me help you out; Definition: intelligence (by Webster's) Noun1. The ability to comprehend; to understand and profit from experience. 8. The capacity to know or understand; Edited by ICdesign, : No reason given.
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nwr Member Posts: 6412 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
ICdesign writes:
We can paraphrase that as: "Intelligence" means about the same thing as some other words that we can't define either.Definition: intelligence (by Webster's) Noun1. The ability to comprehend; to understand and profit from experience. 8. The capacity to know or understand; Dictionary "definitions" are notoriously circular. Jesus was a liberal hippie
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ICdesign Member (Idle past 4828 days) Posts: 360 From: Phoenix Arizona USA Joined: |
How about showing one proof?
As I stated earlier the burden of prove is on the person who claims a system can be built without intelligence. Walking you through the thought process to build a system is all the proof necessary.Can you thread a needle without the thought process of what needs to be done and how to do it? No you can't. That process is called intelligence. I really do have better things to do than participate in these childish wastes of time.
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Percy Member Posts: 22506 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.4 |
Hi ICDesign,
We were in the middle of discussing several things:
If you can respond to at least some of what people said on these topics then we can continue the discussion. --Percy
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ICdesign Member (Idle past 4828 days) Posts: 360 From: Phoenix Arizona USA Joined: |
If you can respond to at least some of what people said on these topics then we can continue the discussion.
Look Percy, for me it all boils down to what I have just recently posted. There is no need to discusspoints B,C,D,E,...when point A doesn't have an answer. Its a waste of my time dealing with all the smoke and mirror shell games you guys throw out there about what is intelligent or intentional purpose and so-forth. I can prove you can't build a system without an intelligent process. Until any of you can prove it CAN be done, I have nothing further to say. Thanks,IC
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9202 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.4 |
I can prove you can't build a system without an intelligent process.
Well I see you cannot since you refuse to do so.
Until any of you can prove it CAN be done, I have nothing further to say. As I said in an earlier post. You claim to understand the TOE, but your posts and comments show that you clearly do not. You might want to research a little about science, the scientific method and proof. That would probably be a good start for you, but alas dogma trumps knowledge for you and your ilk doesn't it. Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
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Percy Member Posts: 22506 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.4 |
Hi ICdesign,
Well, then, I guess the only thing I can respond to is this from your Message 415:
ICdesign in Message 415 writes: The best I have ever seen any of you offer is some insignificant little bacteria mutation that shows nothing of how a sophisticated system can construct without intelligence. Almost all meaningful evolution is nothing more than insignificant little mutations. There is no direction, no goal. The complex systems we have today, whether muscles or bones or nerves or blood circulation or excretory or brains or lymphatic, evolved from minutely less complex systems, which themselves evolved from minutely less complex systems, and so forth back to life's beginning. Each minute change survived into the next generation because it provided some minute advantage. --Percy
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Remember that ICDESIGN also said "One living cell is more complex than the space shuttle. " in Message 136 so a "little bacteria mutation" should be an example of a complex system evolving without intelligence.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Percy Member Posts: 22506 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.4 |
Hi ICdesign,
Another thought occurs to me, about where you said this:
ICdesign writes: There is no need to discuss points B,C,D,E,...when point A doesn't have an answer. Point A, how complex systems evolve without intelligence, does have an answer, but it is at the end of the chain of explanation and information, not the beginning. How complex systems evolve should actually be labeled point E, and you do need to discuss the prior points A, B, C and D (or however many there are) first. A side note: the only thing your hostile responses are doing, like accusing others of shell games and smoke and mirrors and so forth, is provoking more hostile responses, making the discussion even more difficult. Again I ask you to set your marine instincts aside and focus on the content. If evolution is wrong then the evidence showing it is wrong must be out there, but you won't find it by picking up your marbles and going home. --Percy Edited by Percy, : Improve clarity.
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ICdesign Member (Idle past 4828 days) Posts: 360 From: Phoenix Arizona USA Joined: |
Percy writes:
Again, that is fine if you and yours want to believe such a story. In the real observable world we live in we see no such ability. ToE goes against everything we know to be true in the observable, testable world. Sophisticated systems require conscious intent. Almost all meaningful evolution is nothing more than insignificant little mutations. There is no direction, no goal. The complex systems we have today, whether muscles or bones or nerves or blood circulation or excretory or brains or lymphatic, evolved from minutely less complex systems, which themselves evolved from minutely less complex systems, and so forth back to life's beginning. Each minute change survived into the next generation because it provided some minute advantage. ICdesign Edited by ICdesign, : No reason given.
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