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Author
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Topic: Social Unrest?
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Jon
Inactive Member
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Message 2 of 109 (587284)
10-18-2010 8:52 AM
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Reply to: Message 1 by Phat
10-18-2010 8:44 AM
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Do not confuse the reporting of unrest with its actual occurrence. Perhaps current attention will finally start getting underway certain measures required to fix the problem we have been creating for the past several decades. Jon
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| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1 by Phat, posted 10-18-2010 8:44 AM | | Phat has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 3 by Phat, posted 10-18-2010 8:58 AM | | Jon has replied |
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Jon
Inactive Member
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Message 4 of 109 (587288)
10-18-2010 9:02 AM
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Reply to: Message 3 by Phat
10-18-2010 8:58 AM
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Re: And What is the Problem?
Dont tell me that we are overpaid. Wages are now dropping, and we are expected to live on less while working harder. Again, I can accept working harder and attempting to further educate myself...even at my age. I do not think, however, that my government should sell out to the corporate interests and the wealthy that have no preference for American labor over foreign labor. What does that have to do with what I said?
What solutions do you propose, Jon? Solutions for what? Relieving social unrest or getting Phat back his unduly high income? Jon Edited by Jon, : Typos in subtitle
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| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 3 by Phat, posted 10-18-2010 8:58 AM | | Phat has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 5 by Phat, posted 10-18-2010 9:11 AM | | Jon has seen this message but not replied | | | Message 6 by hooah212002, posted 10-18-2010 9:14 AM | | Jon has seen this message but not replied |
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Jon
Inactive Member
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Message 10 of 109 (587312)
10-18-2010 11:42 AM
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Resources and Inflations
Labor is a resource. Getting less of it for more money is inflation. The only way to fix that is to become willing to do more for less; increase output for less in exchange. Anyone wishing otherwise is championing inflation and economic failure. Jon
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Jon
Inactive Member
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Message 12 of 109 (587314)
10-18-2010 11:53 AM
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Reply to: Message 11 by Phat
10-18-2010 11:46 AM
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Re: Resources and Inflations
what good does it do to halt inflation if you have to take a 30% salary cut? Do you know what inflation is? Did you read the part about labor being a resource, an input?
If they insist on doing this, we ought double the taxes on them and force them to help protect our way of life. Which taxes will you double? How will they pay for those taxes? Jon
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| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 11 by Phat, posted 10-18-2010 11:46 AM | | Phat has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 14 by Phat, posted 10-18-2010 12:06 PM | | Jon has replied |
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Jon
Inactive Member
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Message 17 of 109 (587321)
10-18-2010 12:26 PM
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Reply to: Message 13 by frako
10-18-2010 12:06 PM
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Re: Resources and Inflations
There is only one tiny problem in all of this the less people are payed the less they can buy. You cannot buy a successful economy. Labor, like many resources, increases output as its input is increased. If the greater output is exchanged for less today than for what the lower output was exchanged yesterday, deflation occurs. When inflation occurs, deflation is the quickest fix. Is the system inflated or deflated? If you believe it inflated, then you should adopt my solution above. If you believe it deflated, then an alternate solution is required. If you believe it inflated, but continue charging more and more for the same output each successive day, then the system will fail. If the system is inflated in certain areas and equally deflated in others, then it is off-balance, and deflating the inflated areas will inflate the deflated ones. The questions are simple: What is wrong? Based on this, we know what must be done: How do we do it? Jon
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| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 13 by frako, posted 10-18-2010 12:06 PM | | frako has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 21 by frako, posted 10-18-2010 12:34 PM | | Jon has replied |
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Jon
Inactive Member
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Message 19 of 109 (587323)
10-18-2010 12:30 PM
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Reply to: Message 14 by Phat
10-18-2010 12:06 PM
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Re: Resources and Inflations
Where in your post did you address the notion of inflation?
As for inflation, I realize that increasing wages increases prices. Inflation has two parts. This is only one part, and may well be a natural result of even a healthy balanced economy.
The company should help local labor first, in order to help America. Helping India does nothing for anyone but corporate executive paychecks.. You pay your kid to mow the lawn, even if it costs more than hiring the Mexicans. Huh? What has that to do with anything? Jon
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| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 14 by Phat, posted 10-18-2010 12:06 PM | | Phat has not replied |
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Jon
Inactive Member
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Message 20 of 109 (587324)
10-18-2010 12:33 PM
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Reply to: Message 16 by Phat
10-18-2010 12:16 PM
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Re: Resources and Inflations
I fear the war that may occur if Americans are dumped by a competitive uncaring world. We DO have WMD's after all. Any wars as a result of 'Americans .. dumped by a competitive uncaring world' will be solely the responsibility of Americans, and only be one other reason to conclude that America is without integrity. Your bullying tactics may get you more lunch money for a while, but you cannot count on them to fix the system. Jon
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| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 16 by Phat, posted 10-18-2010 12:16 PM | | Phat has not replied |
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Jon
Inactive Member
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Message 22 of 109 (587327)
10-18-2010 12:42 PM
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Reply to: Message 21 by frako
10-18-2010 12:34 PM
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Re: Resources and Inflations
How do we do it? well a no money world would fix the problem how to implement it is a nother problem. what i mean by no money world is that you get what you deserve. your basic, and luxsury goods would be calculated depending on the typ of work you do and what risks and gains are involved in it. Money is just a scale. A standard. A common economic language. The system can work without money, but it requires a lot more effort and time. The system can be fixed without getting rid of our scale; but that requires an understanding of the scale. Furthermore, history shows us that complex, non-monetary economies are short-lived. Standards of scale quickly come to use. It would seem it is just too impractical to run a large economy without the standard of scale money allows. Jon
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| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 21 by frako, posted 10-18-2010 12:34 PM | | frako has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 23 by frako, posted 10-18-2010 12:55 PM | | Jon has replied |
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Jon
Inactive Member
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Message 28 of 109 (587336)
10-18-2010 1:07 PM
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Reply to: Message 23 by frako
10-18-2010 12:55 PM
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Re: Resources and Inflations
say you invested in microsoft back in the 80, you do not have to do anything any more and live of the work of others because you have tones of money. LOL. Why does Microsoft make money today?
if you have enough you or your children never have to work again so you are no longer a productive member of society and you still profit form society's goods. That is easily fixed. It is not a problem with money; it is a problem with society.
If money did not exsist drug lords could not exsist, If the illegal drug market did not exist, drug lords could not exist. Money doesn't allow them to exist anymore than it allows you to take a piss. Again, this is a societal issue, not one spurred from the existence of a standard of scale.
the problem is the whole world would haveto abandon money, and impliment the same laws of goods distribution. Again, you haven't shown how that would fix anything; only make things more complicated. Does throwing the scale out the window make it easier for the doctor to weigh you? Does replacing the scale fix the incompetent doctor who cannot use the scale? The scale is not broken; those who use it and the systems that employ it are. As I've said before, it's the people that need the fixing. Blaming inanimate objects for your troubles does no good toward fixing them. Jon
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| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 23 by frako, posted 10-18-2010 12:55 PM | | frako has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 29 by frako, posted 10-18-2010 1:15 PM | | Jon has replied |
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Jon
Inactive Member
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Message 30 of 109 (587339)
10-18-2010 1:19 PM
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Reply to: Message 25 by DBlevins
10-18-2010 12:58 PM
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Re: Resources and Inflations
It is only a problem if the price for the goods rise with the increase in wages. LOL. Sorry, but that is backwards. Inflation happens when there is more money in circulation today than there was yesterday without a comparable increase in goods/services between yesterday and today. Increasing wages increases money in circulation. If goods/services do not increase comparable to that increase in circulating money, then those goods/services will cost more and the real value (amount purchasable per unit) of money decreases. On deflation:
quote:
Wikipedia on Deflation (emphasis added): In economics, deflation is a decrease in the general price level of goods and services. Deflation occurs when the annual inflation rate falls below 0% (a negative inflation rate). It amounts to an increase in the real value of money, allowing one to buy more goods with the same amount of money. ... As inflation reduces the real value of money over time, conversely, deflation increases the real value of money — the functional currency (and monetary unit of account) in a national or regional economy.
Cut into the outrageous disparity between executives and low wage earners and the mega profits of those corporations. What is the effect of this?
Everyone 'champions' inflation. I sure don't. LOL Jon Edited by Jon, : No reason given. Edited by Jon, : -price
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| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 25 by DBlevins, posted 10-18-2010 12:58 PM | | DBlevins has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 60 by DBlevins, posted 10-19-2010 5:51 PM | | Jon has replied |
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Jon
Inactive Member
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Message 31 of 109 (587340)
10-18-2010 1:21 PM
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Reply to: Message 29 by frako
10-18-2010 1:15 PM
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Re: Resources and Inflations
The scale is not broken; those who use it and the systems that employ it are. As I've said before, it's the people that need the fixing. Blaming inanimate objects for your troubles does no good toward fixing them. it is impossible to fix the people sad but true greed is what drives us and if the system alowes us to abuse it we will abuse it for our own personal gain. The fix will haveto come from a system that cannot be abused for personal gain. Please propose such a system and we can examine it.
cause it has a relative monopoly, not that there are not any other os out there there are not many that work whit everything like microsoft does, and few come as a standard on your pc. How did it create a monopoly? How did it make OS's and other software? Jon
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| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 29 by frako, posted 10-18-2010 1:15 PM | | frako has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 35 by frako, posted 10-18-2010 1:40 PM | | Jon has replied |
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Jon
Inactive Member
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Message 33 of 109 (587343)
10-18-2010 1:29 PM
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Reply to: Message 24 by Phat
10-18-2010 12:56 PM
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Re: What Do We Deserve?
My point, among other points, is that we are getting less than we used to get. How do you know? You've never once tried to examine the issue critically; educate yourself on the basics; look at the history. How do you know you are getting less? If you are or are not, do you know the reasons why it is as it is?
Who determines and/or sets the value scale? You. Jon
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| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 24 by Phat, posted 10-18-2010 12:56 PM | | Phat has not replied |
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Jon
Inactive Member
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Message 34 of 109 (587344)
10-18-2010 1:29 PM
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Reply to: Message 32 by Phat
10-18-2010 1:23 PM
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Re: Resources and Inflations
do a fair job and get a fair wage, I say. What's a fair job? What's a fair wage? Jon
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| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 32 by Phat, posted 10-18-2010 1:23 PM | | Phat has not replied |
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Jon
Inactive Member
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Message 36 of 109 (587351)
10-18-2010 1:56 PM
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Reply to: Message 35 by frako
10-18-2010 1:40 PM
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Re: Resources and Inflations
simple lots would get better whit 2 laws. that the wages of the owner or maneger of any company cannot surpass the wage of the least payed worker by 10 times. and that a portion of the exses profits the ones usualy payed to the owner/s has to be payed to the workers. How would these laws (you didn't actually propose a system) fix anything? How does underpaying one person and overpaying another help? How does setting wages relative to the wages of others help fix the problem of wages not being representative of work performed? Of monetary exchanges not representative of real-value outputs? Shifting money makes the maid happy, but does it really fix the underlying problems? Jon
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| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 35 by frako, posted 10-18-2010 1:40 PM | | frako has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 37 by frako, posted 10-18-2010 2:15 PM | | Jon has replied |
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Jon
Inactive Member
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Message 38 of 109 (587359)
10-18-2010 2:30 PM
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Reply to: Message 37 by frako
10-18-2010 2:15 PM
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Re: Resources and Inflations
my 2 laws would bring the gap closer than it is there would still be ritch people and poor people only less of them. there would be more of high middle class and low middle class people. I agree: your laws assist in redistributing wealth. But, do they fix the problem of monetary exchanges not being representative of real-value outputs? Who says the owner does only ten times more than the maid in ensuring company success? Does their pay relative to one another accurately reflect their work relative to one another? Are you paying based on work? Are there loopholes? Jon Edited by Jon, : No reason given.
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| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 37 by frako, posted 10-18-2010 2:15 PM | | frako has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 39 by frako, posted 10-18-2010 3:55 PM | | Jon has replied |
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