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Author Topic:   Social Unrest?
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1 of 109 (587279)
10-18-2010 8:44 AM


I recently read an article in The Telegraph(UK Newspaper) concerning The Global Unemployment Crises. Note that this is a global issue, and not simply a U.S. issue.
quote:
Global employment crisis will stir social unrest, warns UN agency--For the United States - where persistent unemployment has become one of the main issues in this November's elections - the number of jobs still needed to regain pre-crisis levels is 6.9 million, Steven Tobin, ILO economist, said.
The extended loss of employment and growing perceptions of unfairness risked increasing social tension, the ILO said.
In 35 countries for which data exists, nearly 40 per cent of job seekers have been without work for more than one year, running risks of demoralization and mental health problems, and young people were disproportionately hit by unemployment.
It seems to me that from what else I have read, I gather that much of the problem stems from the fact that the global wealthy and corporate interests are basically hoarding their money and not spending. When they do hire, it is jobs that pay much less than the jobs that were lost when the current recession started. To me, this is also a perception of unfairness. Why should only the wealthy be able to earn money and determine the value of a worker?? Why is global competition between the emerging countries and the current industrial leaders being forced, and, what are the implications of such a clash??
Telegraph writes:
It noted that social unrest related to the crisis has been reported in at least 25 countries, including some recovering emerging economies.
This sort of unrest worries me a lot more than any perceived end of the world scenario from the Christian Right. It portends a coming revolution globally.
quote:
The global economy has started to grow again with encouraging signs of employment recovery especially in some Asian and Latin American emerging economies, the ILO said in its annual World of Work report.
"Despite these significant gains ... new clouds have emerged on the employment horizon and the prospects have worsened significantly in many countries," it said.
I don't mind working harder, nor even going back to school if I can, but this sort of competition is a bit unfair. America should look out for its own first,...before simply hiring the stranger across the pond.

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Jon, posted 10-18-2010 8:52 AM Phat has replied
 Message 8 by frako, posted 10-18-2010 10:30 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 9 by hooah212002, posted 10-18-2010 10:40 AM Phat has not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 109 (587284)
10-18-2010 8:52 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Phat
10-18-2010 8:44 AM


Do not confuse the reporting of unrest with its actual occurrence. Perhaps current attention will finally start getting underway certain measures required to fix the problem we have been creating for the past several decades.
Jon

Check out the Purple Quill!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Phat, posted 10-18-2010 8:44 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Phat, posted 10-18-2010 8:58 AM Jon has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 3 of 109 (587286)
10-18-2010 8:58 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by Jon
10-18-2010 8:52 AM


And What Is THe Problem?
Jon writes:
Do not confuse the reporting of unrest with its actual occurrence. Perhaps current attention will finally start getting underway certain measures required to fix the problem we have been creating for the past several decades.
Dont tell me that we are overpaid. Wages are now dropping, and we are expected to live on less while working harder. Again, I can accept working harder and attempting to further educate myself...even at my age. I do not think, however, that my government should sell out to the corporate interests and the wealthy that have no preference for American labor over foreign labor.
What solutions do you propose, Jon?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Jon, posted 10-18-2010 8:52 AM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by Jon, posted 10-18-2010 9:02 AM Phat has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 109 (587288)
10-18-2010 9:02 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Phat
10-18-2010 8:58 AM


Re: And What is the Problem?
Dont tell me that we are overpaid. Wages are now dropping, and we are expected to live on less while working harder. Again, I can accept working harder and attempting to further educate myself...even at my age. I do not think, however, that my government should sell out to the corporate interests and the wealthy that have no preference for American labor over foreign labor.
What does that have to do with what I said?
What solutions do you propose, Jon?
Solutions for what? Relieving social unrest or getting Phat back his unduly high income?
Jon
Edited by Jon, : Typos in subtitle

Check out the Purple Quill!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Phat, posted 10-18-2010 8:58 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Phat, posted 10-18-2010 9:11 AM Jon has seen this message but not replied
 Message 6 by hooah212002, posted 10-18-2010 9:14 AM Jon has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 5 of 109 (587292)
10-18-2010 9:11 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by Jon
10-18-2010 9:02 AM


Re: And What is the Problem?
Dont be trite.
you said:
Jon writes:
Perhaps current attention will finally start getting underway certain measures required to fix the problem we have been creating for the past several decades.
I then asked:
What solutions do you propose, Jon? (in other words, what measures need to be undertaken?)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Jon, posted 10-18-2010 9:02 AM Jon has seen this message but not replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 802 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 6 of 109 (587293)
10-18-2010 9:14 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by Jon
10-18-2010 9:02 AM


Re: And What is the Problem?
.......getting Phat back his unduly high income?
What would you consider to be "unduly high" as far as income is concerned?

"What can be asserted without proof, can be dismissed without proof."-Hitch.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Jon, posted 10-18-2010 9:02 AM Jon has seen this message but not replied

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 7 of 109 (587296)
10-18-2010 9:35 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by hooah212002
10-18-2010 9:14 AM


Re: And What is the Problem?
Its a bit of a personal rant that we have had. I work at a unionized grocery store and have worked twenty years...making a wage now of $16.00+ an hour.. which still puts me a bit above the poverty line, had I a family of four.
Lower wages will not help an economy recover. (A U.S. Economy) but they will help emerging and developing nations grow.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by hooah212002, posted 10-18-2010 9:14 AM hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied

  
frako
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 8 of 109 (587307)
10-18-2010 10:30 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Phat
10-18-2010 8:44 AM


well no system is perfect i can tell you about the system in place when slovenija was still in yugoslavia
the system was a mix of communisem and free trade basysicly a combo of the former ussr and the us.
the good stuff
very hard to get ritch and very hard to be poor
payments 1:6, if the cleaning lady had a wage of 10$ per hour the boss had 60$
factories belonged to the workers
health care was in the top 10 of the world
anyone who wanted to work could get a job
anyone who worked could build/buy a house and pay it of relatively quick
you could study whatever you wanted to and get a job later in that field
virtualy no homeless people
the bad
some rights where limited
no motivation to work hard
do to it being a relatively closed economy shortages of some imports where common like coffe and oil
free travel to other countries was allowed tough buying there was limited, one could buy a limmited value of goods in a forighn country and bring them back.
why it fell apart
well for starters it was composed of 6 nations that do not like each other slovenians, croatian, serbians, bosinans, macedonians, albanians
and it had 3 mayor religions that fought for power, muslims, chatolics, protestants.
and the fact that we imported more than we exported ment we where running out of money.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Phat, posted 10-18-2010 8:44 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 802 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 9 of 109 (587309)
10-18-2010 10:40 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Phat
10-18-2010 8:44 AM


America should look out for its own first,...before simply hiring the stranger across the pond.
It's quite simple, really. Corporations are looking for cheaper labor. I used to work for Navistar International (the IT subsidiary of International Truck and Engine): a multi-billion dollar company. All of IT got outsourced to IBM. In my department, the data center, there were 4 team leaders and 12 employees. We were replaced with about 3-4 Indians IN INDIA, EACH! Meaning, for each one of us that was laid off, they had 3-4 Indians doing half our job.....and they STILL managed to somehow be saving money doing so!
Why would you, as a corporation, continue to pay relatively expensive American salaries if you can get people to work for 1/4 the wage? From a business standpoint, I can see the allure. And since there is nothing stopping them from doing it, it will continue. What I don't see, though, is the ethics involved. But hey, that's Reaganomics for ya.
I hate to bring up politics, but the repubs seem to be trying to make sure this sort of practice is not hampered by laws.

"What can be asserted without proof, can be dismissed without proof."-Hitch.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Phat, posted 10-18-2010 8:44 AM Phat has not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 109 (587312)
10-18-2010 11:42 AM


Resources and Inflations
Labor is a resource. Getting less of it for more money is inflation. The only way to fix that is to become willing to do more for less; increase output for less in exchange. Anyone wishing otherwise is championing inflation and economic failure.
Jon

Check out the Purple Quill!

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by Phat, posted 10-18-2010 11:46 AM Jon has replied
 Message 25 by DBlevins, posted 10-18-2010 12:58 PM Jon has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 11 of 109 (587313)
10-18-2010 11:46 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by Jon
10-18-2010 11:42 AM


Re: Resources and Inflations
what good does it do to halt inflation if you have to take a 30% salary cut? the point I am making is that we are not helping progress?
Why should corporations be allowed to have no allegiance to the country of their origin? If they insist on doing this, we ought double the taxes on them and force them to help protect our way of life.
Edited by Phat, : further explanation

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Jon, posted 10-18-2010 11:42 AM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by Jon, posted 10-18-2010 11:53 AM Phat has replied
 Message 13 by frako, posted 10-18-2010 12:06 PM Phat has not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 12 of 109 (587314)
10-18-2010 11:53 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by Phat
10-18-2010 11:46 AM


Re: Resources and Inflations
what good does it do to halt inflation if you have to take a 30% salary cut?
Do you know what inflation is? Did you read the part about labor being a resource, an input?
If they insist on doing this, we ought double the taxes on them and force them to help protect our way of life.
Which taxes will you double? How will they pay for those taxes?
Jon

Check out the Purple Quill!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Phat, posted 10-18-2010 11:46 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by Phat, posted 10-18-2010 12:06 PM Jon has replied

  
frako
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 13 of 109 (587316)
10-18-2010 12:06 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Phat
10-18-2010 11:46 AM


Re: Resources and Inflations
what good does it do to halt inflation if you have to take a 30% salary cut? the point I am making is that we are not helping progress?
well people do not have enough money to buy their stuff so they haveto make the stuff cheaper by fireing people or cutting wages. Their products get cheaper, cause less money is needed to make them and more can buy it. There is only one tiny problem in all of this the less people are payed the less they can buy. But in typical human fassion no company is looking at that problem all they want is a quick fix so they can start earning big bucks again.
Edited by frako, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by Jon, posted 10-18-2010 12:26 PM frako has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 14 of 109 (587317)
10-18-2010 12:06 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Jon
10-18-2010 11:53 AM


Re: Resources and Inflations
Jon writes:
Do you know what inflation is? Did you read the part about labor being a resource, an input?
First of all, the issue is which resource do you support. The company should help local labor first, in order to help America. Helping India does nothing for anyone but corporate executive paychecks.. You pay your kid to mow the lawn, even if it costs more than hiring the Mexicans.
As for inflation, I realize that increasing wages increases prices. We don't seek wage increases...we simply seek to be paid the same, since we already are working harder and contributing more value for our jobs.
Americans need to work harder---true---but we should expect this to benefit us and not simply keep us running in place.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Jon, posted 10-18-2010 11:53 AM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by frako, posted 10-18-2010 12:13 PM Phat has replied
 Message 19 by Jon, posted 10-18-2010 12:30 PM Phat has not replied

  
frako
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 15 of 109 (587318)
10-18-2010 12:13 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Phat
10-18-2010 12:06 PM


Re: Resources and Inflations
You pay your kid to mow the lawn, even if it costs more than hiring the Mexicans.
well no it does not cost you more, by paying your kid you invest in him. You teach him the value of money. And he will probably not ask you for more money very soon.
would you given only 2 possible options pay a mexican 70$ to mow your lawn, or 100$ to an american. these are the only 2 options and you do not know anyone of them personaly.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Phat, posted 10-18-2010 12:06 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by Phat, posted 10-18-2010 12:16 PM frako has replied
 Message 107 by Phat, posted 11-04-2011 6:45 PM frako has not replied

  
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