Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9164 total)
3 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,916 Year: 4,173/9,624 Month: 1,044/974 Week: 3/368 Day: 3/11 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Philosophy and science
Straggler
Member (Idle past 96 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 9 of 100 (575586)
08-20-2010 2:27 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by nwr
08-20-2010 1:55 PM


Quine Vs Popper
Nwr writes:
As it happens, I mostly agree with Quine there.
This Quine chap sounds like an interesting fellow.
Asking as one who is pretty familiar with Popper but not with Quine can you give me an indication of where the key differences in aproach might lie?
At this point I ask not to challenge but purely because you seem more knowledgeable of Quine and his approach than I.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by nwr, posted 08-20-2010 1:55 PM nwr has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by nwr, posted 08-20-2010 3:20 PM Straggler has replied

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 96 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 12 of 100 (575621)
08-20-2010 3:31 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by nwr
08-20-2010 3:20 PM


Re: Quine Vs Popper
I will look him up.
I am familiar with Feyerabend and Kuhn to a limited extent (they were part of my philosophy of science course)
Popper's anti-inductivist pure falsification arguments have, as I understand it, been logically refuted.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by nwr, posted 08-20-2010 3:20 PM nwr has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by nwr, posted 08-20-2010 3:56 PM Straggler has not replied
 Message 14 by Bikerman, posted 08-20-2010 8:35 PM Straggler has replied

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 96 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 27 of 100 (575770)
08-21-2010 2:14 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by Bikerman
08-20-2010 8:35 PM


Re: Quine Vs Popper
Have you a reference for that? I wasn't aware it had been refuted.
From memory......
It was something like the basis of Popper's rejection of purely inductivist methods applied equally to his own proposed falsification alternative.
Applied in the sense that it is purely inductive to think that if a theory has survived prior falsification attempts it will necessarily be better placed to survive future falsification attempts.
Thus meaning that simply having survived a number of falsification attempts should make no difference to how confident one is in ones theory.
Something like that anyway........
If that makes no sense I will look it up. It was in my philosophy of sci class but that was going on 20 years (gulp!) ago now.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Bikerman, posted 08-20-2010 8:35 PM Bikerman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by Bikerman, posted 08-21-2010 3:08 AM Straggler has not replied

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 96 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 79 of 100 (578402)
09-01-2010 5:29 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by Modulous
09-01-2010 5:15 PM


Re: Real philosophy with real world science
Mod writes:
How does one come to 'know' something as opposed to believing it or being deluded about it or being in simple error (eg turns out it is a picture of a table)?
What is the difference between knowing, believing, imagining....etc?
I think these questions are absolutely fundamental to what science is and impinge (in one way or another) on practically every topic that EvC forum was setup to cover.
Mod writes:
Understanding something seems to invoke philosophy - but that depends on what we mean by 'understand' - and answering that is definitely philosophy!
Yay!!!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by Modulous, posted 09-01-2010 5:15 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by Bikerman, posted 09-01-2010 7:00 PM Straggler has not replied
 Message 82 by Bikerman, posted 09-01-2010 8:05 PM Straggler has not replied
 Message 85 by Modulous, posted 09-01-2010 8:31 PM Straggler has replied

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 96 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 96 of 100 (578753)
09-02-2010 2:06 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by Stile
09-02-2010 9:25 AM


Detecting Knowing and Understanding
Stile writes:
I suppose my stance on that is that I'm only concerned with "detecting" and couldn't care less about "knowing".
I'd say such a thing because once we get into "knowing" (in a strict sense) we're into a definitions game...
What is "knowing"?
What is "understanding"?
I don't see the point of "detecting" unless it is related to "knowing" or "understanding".
A camera can detect. A computer rigged up with a variety of sensors can detect all manner of things. But what is the point of merely "detecting" if the endgame isn't to "know" or "understand" something?
Only a conscious mind of some sort can detect and "understand" or "know" something as a result of that detection.
Surely that's where the requirement for philosophy comes in.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by Stile, posted 09-02-2010 9:25 AM Stile has seen this message but not replied

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 96 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 97 of 100 (578755)
09-02-2010 2:13 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by Modulous
09-01-2010 8:31 PM


Re: Real philosophy with real world science
Mod writes:
So in short - to say you know something implies you have a criteria for knowledge.
How do we go about determining what those criteria are (or should be)?
And how can we ever know (or have confidence in) those criteria unless the knowledge on which our choice of criteria is based meets some criteria for knowledge itself?
Where does this seeming infinite regress stop? Am I making even remote sense at this point?
Mod writes:
It's EvC Forum that drove me to philosophy - trying to find the things that underpin the discussion themselves so that they can be addressed directly.
Well my thinking and interests are following similar lines albeit far in lag of your own.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by Modulous, posted 09-01-2010 8:31 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 99 by Modulous, posted 09-02-2010 5:01 PM Straggler has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024