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Member (Idle past 4828 days) Posts: 360 From: Phoenix Arizona USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Evolving the Musculoskeletal System | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ICdesign Member (Idle past 4828 days) Posts: 360 From: Phoenix Arizona USA Joined: |
Crashfrog writes: Why do you think you need bones to have nerves? Pay attention Crashfrog. You have to have nerves to the muscles thatmove the bones. Crashfrog writes: There are innumerable ways our systems could be simpler, less complex, less full-featured I am waiting with baited breath for you to spell out such a system
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ICdesign Member (Idle past 4828 days) Posts: 360 From: Phoenix Arizona USA Joined: |
You know what Crashfrog? I don't even like you and its irritating to deal with you so I probably won't be answering your relies for much longer.
Crashfrog writes: I asked why you think you need to have bones in order to have nerves Ho hum...show me where I said "I think you need to have bones in order to have nerves". Show me a organism that is under evolutionary construction that is surviving with an incomplete system please.
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ICdesign Member (Idle past 4828 days) Posts: 360 From: Phoenix Arizona USA Joined: |
none of this is on topic subbie
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ICdesign Member (Idle past 4828 days) Posts: 360 From: Phoenix Arizona USA Joined: |
nwr writes: The thing is, when something is designed and has a large number of complexly related components that are mutually dependent on one another, the resulting designed product is quite fragile. Evolved things, by contrast, are fairly robust - they have to be or they would not survive to reproduce. How does this explain the survival of an incomplete system?
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ICdesign Member (Idle past 4828 days) Posts: 360 From: Phoenix Arizona USA Joined: |
I concede. That was a dumb approach when there is no evolution taking place anywhere.
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ICdesign Member (Idle past 4828 days) Posts: 360 From: Phoenix Arizona USA Joined: |
Crashfrog writes: So, exactly in what sense is it a "FACT" that our nerves are dependent on our bones for survival? For one thing, your blood needs your bones. Do your nerves need blood?...can you live without your bones?...will your nerves survive if you die?
Crashfrog writes: you need look no farther than the nearest pregnant woman: I am talking about independent organisms...and you wonder why I don't like you?...I am really holding back here...Lord give me strength...
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ICdesign Member (Idle past 4828 days) Posts: 360 From: Phoenix Arizona USA Joined: |
please refer to my last private message to you
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ICdesign Member (Idle past 4828 days) Posts: 360 From: Phoenix Arizona USA Joined: |
Crashfrog writes: Earthworms have blood but no bones. How do you explain this discrepancy with your "FACTS"? Or is this just about how I know so much more than you that I can't see "the truth" that no organism without bones could ever possibly survive or exist? Show me where I said no organism could ever live without bones. I said YOU can't live without bones. If you want to change goal posts andtalk about worms then start a new thread. Respectfully,IC
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ICdesign Member (Idle past 4828 days) Posts: 360 From: Phoenix Arizona USA Joined: |
Percy writes: precisely explain what makes it so wildly impossible. How did I not do that in message #71? If you thinkothers gave suitable responses then let the record show I strongly disagree!!! You and your buddies are the ones making claims that rm/ns is producing miraculous designing feats and as Bolder-dash rightly stated, the burden of proof is on you to prove the impossible really happened, not on us to prove that it didn't. I haven't been dumbly asking the same questions over and over as you have made it sound. I have presented thought provoking questions worthy of sound answers.Its not my fault that I think the answers thus far fall flat. Respectfully,IC
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ICdesign Member (Idle past 4828 days) Posts: 360 From: Phoenix Arizona USA Joined: |
Hi scarab, and welcome to the EvC.
scarab writes: That's an easy one: it did it gradually, starting from simple beginnings and progressing from there. The Human skeleton is an example of the current mammalian state of the art. State of the art indeed. Saying they gradually progressed from simple beginnings into a state of the art mammalian skeleton does nothing to explain how they ended up in such perfect formation from the skull to the toe. With your obviously very intelligent mind, you would be hard pressed to sit down and engineer a more well thought out design for a foundational structure than our current skeletal system. From there it only gets tougher to account for as we see over 650 muscles that puppeteer the structure connected to all the nerves through the body in an elaborate maze of wiring connecting to the amazing brain. If you check out message #71 the problems surmount as I point out how the problems for the evolutionary model can hardly be scoffed at as system after system has to be up and running to make it all happen. You present a lot of "could have's" and "possible's" but I would love to see some tangible evidence that rm/ns is capable of pulling off such miraculous feats of design. I here a lot of inferences made as people peer into a microscope. I see a lot of people pointing to mutations gone bad. I hear a lot of high fulootin biological mubo-jumbo but I don't see any real and tangible evidence being offer up that rm/ns is capable of producing complex new structures. Respectfully,ICDESIGN
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ICdesign Member (Idle past 4828 days) Posts: 360 From: Phoenix Arizona USA Joined: |
Hi Percy,
First of all, thank you for showing me how to highlight a link to a msg. That is very helpful info
Percy writes: So anyway, I've taken another look at Message 71 and I can't see where you precisely explained what makes random mutation and natural selection wildly impossible as the processes largely responsible for "the over 1200 components" of the musculoskeletal system. C'mon Percy, you've got to be kidding me. What about the elephant in the living room I talked about? Its not off topic because the systems I pointed out that are necessary for the Musculoskeletal to operate are all interconnected. I get it that evolution is a very slow step by step accumulation over a vast period of time. That is in essence my beef.
Evolution doesn't produce sudden new structures.
Exactly! So how does a system that would take a vast amount of time to evolve be functionalduring the vast time of evolvement? As I said in Message 71, if an organism isn't fully formed from the beginning it cannot exist. (of course I am talking about going back to the very first ones)Not one of you has yet addressed this problem. Why is that? Respectfully,IC
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ICdesign Member (Idle past 4828 days) Posts: 360 From: Phoenix Arizona USA Joined: |
Huntard writes: There's nothing miraculous about it. Oh really? Then lets see you sit down and design a completely original human body that we could transfer into and live successfully.
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ICdesign Member (Idle past 4828 days) Posts: 360 From: Phoenix Arizona USA Joined: |
Huntard writes: Check out the design programs we use to design planes, cars, highly complex antenae, and so on. They all use evolutionary algorithms. And they all come up with "miraculous designs" Oh, do you mean those intelligently designed computers using those intelligently designed programs...yeah, real evolutionary. Off topic so save subject for another thread... Bye the way Huntard... good to here from you Mate
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ICdesign Member (Idle past 4828 days) Posts: 360 From: Phoenix Arizona USA Joined: |
Crashfrog writes: a worm is born "fully-formed" even though it completely lacks a skeletal system. Ok, lets walk through this Crash. First of all you still got what I said in 71 wrong. I was talking about the human body the whole time. So drop this foolishness like I don't know many creatures don't have a skeletal system...give me a friggen break! Now. How did the very first worm become fully-formed?
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ICdesign Member (Idle past 4828 days) Posts: 360 From: Phoenix Arizona USA Joined: |
Mr.Jack writes: the exact same answer you will get about how any organism ever came to be: it was born of parents Keep going back to the first one. The very first one. What is you guys don't get about being the very first one?If the first one burst on the scene fully formed that is called creation not evolution.
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