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Member (Idle past 95 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Is Christianity Polytheistic? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Straggler Member (Idle past 95 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
Biblical Christianity is monotheistic. Right? One single god?
I say not. For example in what sense is Satan less of a god than Apollo or Thor? In what sense is archangel Gabriel any less of a god than Mercury or Dionysius? The bible contains a whole host of angels, demons and supernatural characters that are gods in all but name and which in other mythologies would be given that title. I know many Biblical Christians will insist that theirs is a monotheistic religion. I know they will insist that theirs is superior in some sense to those more "primitive" polytheistic religions that went before because of this. But they are just being inconsistent in their use of the term "god". To accept Apollo as an example of a god concept in a polytheistic belief system but to deny that the concept of Satan in biblical Christianity is anything other than the same is just equivocation. Isn't it? Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.
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Straggler Member (Idle past 95 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
Christianity is quite clearly polytheistic: God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are all separate entities, with separate powers and personalities. Going "but, but, they're a trinity" doesn't cut it. OK. Throw in Lucifer/Satan, various angels, demons and even things like the Virgin Mary making the occasional appearance and I think the case for polytheism is definitely there. Denial of this seems to me to be nothing more than equivocation and the application of the no true Scotsman fallacy.
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Straggler Member (Idle past 95 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
The argument is flawed because you're applying one religion's standard of God to another religion's. Christianity does not define God with the same qualifiers as other religions do. So actually there was no religion or even concept of god until Chrsitianity? Humanity was devoid of theism of any sort until Chrsitianity emerged? According to you religion, god and theism didn't even exist until Christianity emerged. Is that your position?
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Straggler Member (Idle past 95 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
But I could just as well apply the christian concept of what constitutes a God, and then apply it to greek mythology, and declare that (since none pass the 'test) that it is therefore a non-theistic (atheist?) belief. This means that there were no gods, religions or forms of theism (poly or otherwise) prior to Christianity doesn't it? Is that really what you mean?
I think if you think about it, you will realize that you are in fact equivocating the word 'god', and this is why your conclusion is false. If you think about it you will realise that you are committing the no true Scotsman fallacy. No?
AbE To explain clearly the equivocation, you are equivocating the greek 'pagan' definition of God with the christian definition of God, in order to claim christianity should view satan is a god So what is this definition of god that I should be using and how does it do anything but limit theism in it's entirety to Judeo-Christian concepts of god. Thus meaning theism of any sort didn't exist until Chrsitianity and terms like polytheism to be utterly meaningless by very definition.
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Straggler Member (Idle past 95 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
Are Hindus atheists?
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Straggler Member (Idle past 95 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
Dr Sing writes: Whether we can apply one religion's definitions to another successfully is the question, yes? Straggler writes: Are Hindus atheists? dr Sing writes: No. So then you accept the Hindu concept of god as meeting your requirement of that which you would call god?
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Straggler Member (Idle past 95 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
Hindus clearly believe in a concept of God. Therefore they are not atheists. You can hardly take this to mean that my concept of God and their is one and the same? They don't have to be the same to both qualify as god concepts do they. Given that you accept that the Hindu god Lakshmi qualifies as meeting your requirement to be called a "god" can you tell me in what way Satan does not also qualify as a god? What are the criteria for being accepted as worthy of the term "god"?
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Straggler Member (Idle past 95 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
If what you say is true Christians would consider Muslims, Hindus et al to be atheists. As the Christians would consider all those others as not believing in god(s).
No?
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Straggler Member (Idle past 95 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
However, having a belief doesn't necessarily mean that some other belief is necessarily invalidated. I didn't say it was.
I may not believe in the Hindu gods, nor think them worthy of worship, but I know Hindus do. Of course they do. But if Hindus qualify as theists they must believe in gods. If Hindu gods qualify as gods then in what sense does satan not? Without some serious equivocation?
That's what makes them "gods" to the hindus, and makes Hindus theists. If I define pencils as being "gods" and choose to worship pencils does that make me a theist? Is a theist just someone who defiines X as god and then worships it regardless of what X is where X can be anything at all? Or does X have criteria to qualify as "god" and if so what are these criteria?
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Straggler Member (Idle past 95 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
Atheists consider no beings as being a god. Does that mean that atheists think everyone is an atheist? No. It means atheists think people believe in lots of different gods. But what does this term "god" mean and why doesn't satan or the archangel Gabriel qualify?
The problem with this thread is that one has to take each individual religion according to its own definition of a god, even though those definitions are inconsistent between them. If I define pencils as gods and believe that pencils exist do I become a theist? What is it one has to believe in to be a theist?
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Straggler Member (Idle past 95 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
Because, according to the Christian definition, Satan is not a god. Since this thread is about Christianity as a polytheistic religion, the only relevant question is whether Satan is a god in Christianity. When I asked Dr Sing (a Christian) if Hindus believed in gods (s) said yes. So if Dr Sing thinks Hindu gods qualify as gods in what sense does Satan not also qualify?
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Straggler Member (Idle past 95 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
There isn't one unequivocal definition. It's rather like the word "dragon". We translate various Chinese and Persian words by the English word "dragon", but all they really have in common is being mythical and scaly. OK. So what is it that is common to all concepts that are labeled as "god" and how is Satan not included in that? If Christians want to restrict the term "god" to what they mean by their version of god alone then how can they also say that vast swathes of humanity throughout history have believed in gods?
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Straggler Member (Idle past 95 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
A tricky question. I think there is some set of minimum criteria that a being needs to meet to be considered a god. I'm far from a comparative religion expert, so I'm hardly the person to put forth a comprehensive definition, but on first glance, it at least needs to be some kind of self-aware entity with supernatural powers. This rules out a normal pencil. But includes Satan.
But obviously beyond any minimum set of criteria, different religions have different, more detailed definitions, and the definition of god in Christianity does not include Satan. I suspect the Christian definition discludes Hindu gods. Which means Christians think that Hindus are not theists?
Thus, Satan cannot be an example of a god showing that Christianity is polytheistic, unless you wish to quarrel with my proposition that the question must be answered by looking at the definition that the given religion uses. So each religion can provide it's own definition of god and exclude all others? But simultaneously they can say that believers of other religions are theists? Explain to me how that works unless there are equivocating.
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Straggler Member (Idle past 95 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined:
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How many times have you seen believers here at EvC cite widespread belief in gods as some sort of evidence for the actual existence of gods?
It seems to me that Christians want to be able to say that the majority of humanity believes in god whilst simultaneously defining god such that it excludes everyone but them. This is blatantly inconsistent.
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Straggler Member (Idle past 95 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
If I define pencils as being "gods" and choose to worship pencils does that make me a theist? Sure, why not. I could make up any kind of new religion or deity today if I wanted to, and as long as it involves worshiping some concept of "god", it is theistic. What is "god"? It could be anything that I'd decide to worship in my new religion, including a pencil. Precisely. Yet I expect the Christians here will say that believing in pencils does not make me a theist because pencils aren't gods. Whilst simultaneously saying that Hindus are theists despite the fact that by any Christian definition the things Hindus believe in aren't gods either. It is this contradiction I am attempting to highlight and to see if anyone has any answers to. Simply saying "but all religions define god differently" (whilst true) isn't very illuminating as it fails to get round this contradiction.
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