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Member (Idle past 5084 days) Posts: 125 From: Brooklyn, New York Joined: |
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Author | Topic: The Truth About Evolution and Religion | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
dkroemer Member (Idle past 5084 days) Posts: 125 From: Brooklyn, New York Joined: |
There is no evidence, as you say. Evidence is the basis of scientific knowledge. There is no evidence that we dream when we sleep. We know we dream because we can make ourselves the subject of our own knowledge. This is called transcendence.
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dkroemer Member (Idle past 5084 days) Posts: 125 From: Brooklyn, New York Joined: |
I am interested in explaining biology, especially evolutionary biology. To understand biology, you need to understand metaphysics and understand why biology only studies the bodies of humans. Most American biologists don't understand the biology of humans because if you ask them about the human soul they will give an irrational and misinformed answer. American biologists speak of dualism, monism, determinism, and materialism without knowing what they are talking about.
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Huntard Member (Idle past 2325 days) Posts: 2870 From: Limburg, The Netherlands Joined: |
dkroemer writes:
Then why would we even consider it?
There is no evidence, as you say. Evidence is the basis of scientific knowledge.
I'd say of all knowledge really. For if you "know" something that cannot be demonstrated to be true, what good is that knowledge?
There is no evidence that we dream when we sleep.
Actually there is.
We know we dream because we can make ourselves the subject of our own knowledge. This is called transcendence.
No, that is called memory.
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Huntard Member (Idle past 2325 days) Posts: 2870 From: Limburg, The Netherlands Joined: |
dkroemer writes:
Then why bring up souls and metaphysics? That has nothing to do with evolution.
I am interested in explaining biology, especially evolutionary biology. To understand biology, you need to understand metaphysics and understand why biology only studies the bodies of humans.
No you don't. Biology studies the natural world. If the soul is not part of that, then biology does not study it. Metaphysics has nothing to do with it.
Most American biologists don't understand the biology of humans because if you ask them about the human soul they will give an irrational and misinformed answer.
They don;t understand bbiology because they can't answer a question about something that has absolutely nothing to do with biology? What a weird position to take. Do plumbers not know anything about pipes because they can't answer questions about brain surgery?
American biologists speak of dualism, monism, determinism, and materialism without knowing what they are talking about.
If tehy do talk about those things, then they talk about them on a personal note, and not as biologists (well, apart perhaps from materialism). Since none of those hhave anything to do with biology.
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dkroemer Member (Idle past 5084 days) Posts: 125 From: Brooklyn, New York Joined: |
If you were a biology teacher and a student asked you if animals had free will, what would you say? This is a multiple choice question:
1) I don't know. 2) Free will is an illusion. 3) Ask your philosophy teacher. 4) Biology only studies the bodies of humans, not their souls.
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dkroemer Member (Idle past 5084 days) Posts: 125 From: Brooklyn, New York Joined: |
Memory has to do with past and future. But the past and future are mental beings. Past and future only exist when a real being is thinking about the past and future. What are mental beings? Do mental beings have mass? Do mental beings take up space?
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Huntard Member (Idle past 2325 days) Posts: 2870 From: Limburg, The Netherlands Joined: |
dkroemer writes:
Probably 3. As a teacher I'd never tell them number 2 (which is my position, but as a teacher you can't say that to your students). Number 4 is nonsensical and number 1 is not helping them very much. The one to ask about free will is the philosophy teacher, since he is the one that specializes in those kind of things.
If you were a biology teacher and a student asked you if animals had free will, what would you say? This is a multiple choice question:1) I don't know. 2) Free will is an illusion. 3) Ask your philosophy teacher. 4) Biology only studies the bodies of humans, not their souls.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.5 |
None of the above.
I would say that libertarian free will is logically incoherent, and therefore cannot exist. The more intelligent animals - those that can be meaningfully said to have a will - likely have free will according to compatibilist formulations of the concept. And that includes humans. Of course the only point truly related to biology is the assessment of animal intelligence.
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dkroemer Member (Idle past 5084 days) Posts: 125 From: Brooklyn, New York Joined: |
I agree that the choice is between 2) and 4). Your remarks are similar to Stephen Jay Gould's. You are talking out of both sides of your mouth. Gould spoke about his "private ideas" and you distinguish between what you say to children and what you think. I have no such conflict. I say what I think.
People who say free will is an illusion live their lives as if they have free will. They apologize when they hurt someone, they feel guilty, and they promise not to do it again.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 315 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
If you were a biology teacher and a student asked you if animals had free will, what would you say? This is a multiple choice question: 1) I don't know. 2) Free will is an illusion. 3) Ask your philosophy teacher. 4) Biology only studies the bodies of humans, not their souls. How about if someone wanted to answer "yes"? Or "no"? Or: "that depends on the animal"?
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 315 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
Memory has to do with past and future. But the past and future are mental beings. Past and future only exist when a real being is thinking about the past and future. A curious idea which you have not tried to justify.
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Huntard Member (Idle past 2325 days) Posts: 2870 From: Limburg, The Netherlands Joined: |
dkroemer writes:
I'd say with just the past. I'd love to know if you have a method for remembering the future.
Memory has to do with past and future. But the past and future are mental beings. Past and future only exist when a real being is thinking about the past and future.
Nonsense. They exist regardless of a "real being" (Whatever that is) thinking about them. For example, if nobody thinks about WWII, it will suddenly not have happened?
What are mental beings? Do mental beings have mass? Do mental beings take up space?
Mental beings are something you made up.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 315 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
I am interested in explaining biology, especially evolutionary biology. To understand biology, you need to understand metaphysics and understand why biology only studies the bodies of humans. If you understand that biology only studies non-metaphysical things, then you understand that you do not need to understand metaphysical things in order to understand biology.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 315 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
There is no evidence that we dream when we sleep. Yes there is. That's how we know that we dream when we sleep.
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Huntard Member (Idle past 2325 days) Posts: 2870 From: Limburg, The Netherlands Joined: |
dkroemer writes:
I said I'd choose 3. My personal choice would be 2. 4 I wouldn't even consider, since that is not an answer to the question. I t makes no sense as an answer to the question.
I agree that the choice is between 2) and 4). Your remarks are similar to Stephen Jay Gould's. You are talking out of both sides of your mouth. Gould spoke about his "private ideas" and you distinguish between what you say to children and what you think.
Of course. I am a teacher (in your example). Would they ask me for my personal oppinion, I would give it to them. But as their teacher it is not my place to tell them what they shoudl think. This is not talking from both sides of my mouth, this is taking my job seriously.
I have no such conflict. I say what I think.
As do I. But in your example I am a teacher, and so I have a certain professionalism I have to take into account. If you would teach only your personal oppinions to students, you would be a lousy teacher.
People who say free will is an illusion live their lives as if they have free will.
Evidence?
They apologize when they hurt someone, they feel guilty, and they promise not to do it again.
That's called taking responsibility, not free will. Free will doesn't exist., free choice on the other hand, does.
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