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Author Topic:   Not only Intelligent Design - but DIVINE DESIGN!
Anita Meyer
Member (Idle past 5087 days)
Posts: 33
From: Kenosha, WI.
Joined: 05-13-2010


Message 1 of 139 (560169)
05-13-2010 3:57 PM


Edited by AdminSlev, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by AdminSlev, posted 05-13-2010 6:21 PM Anita Meyer has replied

Anita Meyer
Member (Idle past 5087 days)
Posts: 33
From: Kenosha, WI.
Joined: 05-13-2010


Message 3 of 139 (560210)
05-13-2010 6:56 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by AdminSlev
05-13-2010 6:21 PM


Not only Intelligent Design - but DIVINE DESIGN!
Hello all,
I am new to this forum and have come here to share something very special with you. I had discovered something revolutionary that I’m sure all of you here will appreciate. I am also an author who wrote a book about it.
What I had discovered was that the Hebrew letters that were given to Moses on Mount Sinai from G-d (documented in the Bible as being directly inscribed by the Finger of G-d onto the Ten Commandments) are created from natures law. I had discovered that there are mathematical units of growth found in all of nature (such as Pi 3.14, Phi, Fibonacci sequence and the Golden Mean Spiral) that creates "one" prototype form that produces all of the 22 Hebrew letters. In other words, what I had discovered is not only intelligent design, but Divine Design, which lends credence to very strong evidence for G-d’s existence!
To get a better idea of what I am talking about, firstly let me explain more about the mathematical numbers that appear in all of the natural world. We see these mathematical pattern in things like crystals, plants, animals, humans, and all living things. We can even see this mathematical pattern in the life cycle of an atom and its particles (which spiral). For instance we have units of growth that appear in nature such as the Fibonacci sequence that goes like this: 0,1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,34,55,89,144, (add the last two numbers together to get the next number 233. We also have the Golden Section numbers which are 0.61803 and 1.61803. The Golden String is 1011010110110101101... A sequence of 0’s and 1’s that is closely related to the Fibonacci numbers and the Golden Section. We also have Pi (3.14) and Phi which is also closely related. Now Pi and Phi works around the Fibonacci sequence and the Golden Mean Spiral. These units of measure are different mathematical units of growth, but they are in cahoots and conspire with each other. They are in a state of relationship and association with each other. One can see these sequences in nature that instructs all living things when deciding how many units to grow next such as in a trees branches and a plants leaves. This series (of adding some quantity) can be seen everywhere in nature. This series is what has come to be called by several names, the numbers of the Fibonacci sequence also (regarded in conjunction with Phi/Pi), increase at a rate equal to oscillating around the Golden Mean Spiral.
In trying to understand our world and everything that happens within and below we must go to the biggest most foundational source which is our Universe. This same unit of growth pattern can be seen in the spiral arms of our Universe. So to simplify things If we're built from Spirals while living in a giant Spiral, then its quite obvious that everything that is within is also infused with the Spiral.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/...1-aHxf8Q/s400/spiral20galaxy.jpg
Now this brings us to the Hebrew letters (The Primordial Language) when we analyze the very first Hebrew letter of the Bible which is the letter B (from the first word - Barashith). Which looks like this:
http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/stickyj/HebrewBet.jpg
Now when we spiral a bendable wire around this Hebrew letter it results in a 3 dimensional view (pictures are in my book) in such a way that exhibits a similar unit of growth (where it starts out with a small hoop and then gradually grows into a bigger hoop and then again a third hoop (which is a mathematical unit of growth similar to the ones in nature). It is 3 dimensional. When we remove this wire form and turn it around in different angles we can begin to see that all the other 22 Hebrew letters become visible depending on the angle one looks at it. For instance if we take this spiral form of the Hebrew letter B and turn it upside-down we now have the Hebrew letter T. Another words this one prototype form, forms all the 22 Hebrew letters. No other alphabet in the world does this!
Here is a picture of the Hebrew letter B again next to the spiral design of a shell. One can see that the shell is almost nearly the Hebrew letter B.
http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/stickyj/HebrewBet.jpg
http://pangea.tec.selu.edu/...250px-Conch_shell_2%5B1%5D.jpg
In my book I go on to show how all the 22 Hebrew letters are formed from this same basic (prototype) mathematical spiraling shape, which to my understanding shows valuable evidence of an intelligence behind the design. Apparently the same synergizing design found in all of the natural world (as explained above). Another words, not only do we have Intelligent Design, we have Divine Design.
I had also discovered that the Hebrew letter "Ayin" is linked to the Great Pyramid of Giza.
If you have any question please ask away.
Edited by Anita Meyer, : No reason given.

Author Anita Meyer anitameyer1@hotmail.com
The Primordial Language - Confirmation of the Divine Creator
http://www.insearchoftheuniversaltruthpubli.../...guage.html

This message is a reply to:
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Anita Meyer
Member (Idle past 5087 days)
Posts: 33
From: Kenosha, WI.
Joined: 05-13-2010


Message 5 of 139 (560392)
05-14-2010 9:29 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by AdminSlev
05-14-2010 5:04 PM


Re: Not only Intelligent Design - but DIVINE DESIGN!
Oh absolutely!
Yes, I know I am getting around on the Internet. I participate on several forums. One of the main forums that I have been on for years is Atlantis Rising, which is part of the Atlantis Rising Magazine if you’ve ever read it. Anyhow, I just thought that I would reach out from my little world and chime in on several other forums. I like to share my knowledge. Your forum is focused on the very topics that I absolutely love!
So yes, if you give me a chance and put me to the challenge, I will certainly stick around.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by AdminSlev, posted 05-14-2010 5:04 PM AdminSlev has not replied

Anita Meyer
Member (Idle past 5087 days)
Posts: 33
From: Kenosha, WI.
Joined: 05-13-2010


Message 11 of 139 (560441)
05-15-2010 9:14 AM


Perhaps you could scan and post some pictures from your book, but I don't see the connection. Of course if you make spirals of wire around a letter it *gasp* will look like a spiral! Because you just made it!
Hello all, in my original posting here, I had supplied a general description and understanding (along with pictures from my book) of my analysis on the Hebrew letters and their connection with Nature and G-d.
Here it is again:
http://www.insearchoftheuniversaltruthpubli.../...nation.pdf
After you read it (and comprehend it) you must then ask yourself, if indeed G-d has put order into all of His creation, (as you have witnessed with the Hebrew letters) how much more would He have put order into His Word - the Bible. There is indeed order which clearly demonstrates Intelligent Design, or as I say, Divine Design.
Enjoy, Love and Light, Anita Meyer
Edited by Anita Meyer, : No reason given.

Author Anita Meyer anitameyer1@hotmail.com
The Primordial Language - Confirmation of the Divine Creator
http://www.insearchoftheuniversaltruthpubli.../...guage.html

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by Hyroglyphx, posted 05-15-2010 9:55 AM Anita Meyer has not replied

Anita Meyer
Member (Idle past 5087 days)
Posts: 33
From: Kenosha, WI.
Joined: 05-13-2010


Message 23 of 139 (560509)
05-15-2010 4:47 PM


You people can think what you want, but I will tell you that it has some of the biggest and well renowned scientists pondering right about now!
One problem, The Hebrew alphabet didn't exist at the time of Moses. The Hebrew alphabet was an adaptation of the Phoenician alphabet , adapted during the reign of Solomon seveal hundred years after Moses.
Wikipedia writes:
Phoenician became one of the most widely used writing systems, spread by Phoenician merchants across the Mediterranean world, where it was assimilated by many other cultures and evolved. Many modern writing systems thought to have descended from Phoenician cover much of the world. The Aramaic alphabet, a modified form of Phoenician, was the ancestor of the modern Arabic and Hebrew scripts. The Greek alphabet (and by extension its descendants such as the Latin, the Cyrillic and the Coptic), was a direct successor of Phoenician, though certain letter values were changed to represent vowels.
Firstly, no credible linguistic scholar can say with any confidence just were language or writing originated from. Yes, they can postulate on which ones they think came first, but this is really just all assumption.
Secondly, in my book I have a whole chapter that is dedicated to showing people how all written writing of the world is a form of the same Hebrew letters that came down with Moses from Mount Sinai. I have letter charts that show the similarity in letters from the earliest know/found eras. Even Phoenician, cuneiform, Chinese and Mayan are forms of Hebrew.
If you are familiar with the biblical books of Enoch and Jubilees... both books mention that Enoch was the first "scribe" in history. Enoch was the 7th generation from Adam and Eve and he lived pre-flood era. Enoch was the great grandfather of Noah. Enoch was taught this writing and language from G-d’s appointed angel "Uriel". Throughout the centuries this writing became mottled and irregular until it was later revised by G-d and given to Moses on Mount Sinai.
You've seen Moses's tablets? So you know that they are in the same font as later Hebrew writing?
You can rest assure that the Hebrew scribes copied them exactly as they were seen on the tablets and additionally written by Moses. Have you any idea of the rules that the Hebrew scribes had to abide by (and still do to this very day)? Research this for yourself, then get back to me.
When Moses was on Mount Sinai the letters were revised by G-d into their original proper forms. This style was called the Hebrew block style and was used to write the Hebrew Old Testament.
In my book I illustratively show how each and every one of the Hebrew letters are formed from one prototype form, which in turn are formed from natures law. If you think this isn’t amazing, try finding an alphabet in the world today that does this.
If one cannot see that there is intelligence here... might as well go amuse yourself with watching paint dry.
Edited by Anita Meyer, : No reason given.
Edited by Anita Meyer, : No reason given.

Author Anita Meyer anitameyer1@hotmail.com
The Primordial Language - Confirmation of the Divine Creator
http://www.insearchoftheuniversaltruthpubli.../...guage.html

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Anita Meyer
Member (Idle past 5087 days)
Posts: 33
From: Kenosha, WI.
Joined: 05-13-2010


Message 26 of 139 (560515)
05-15-2010 6:16 PM


but I will tell you that it has some of the biggest and well renowned scientists pondering right about now!
Care to drop a name or two? OK, how about just one.
Very soon they will become apparent! Read some of my reviews on Barnes and Noble.
You can rest assure that the Hebrew scribes copied them exactly as they were seen on the tablets and additionally written by Moses.
Ok, lets say you were anywhere near correct in your assertion of the origin of the hebrew alphabet(which you aren't). Do you really believe that in the generations and generations of scribal copying there were no changes? Did your god divinely inspire each and every scribe? Since you claim we can "rest assure"(the saying is actually rest assured, this is one of those things pointed out earlier that you might want to work on if you want to be taken at least partially seriously) could you give us a reason or some evidence to make us "rest assure".
Theodoric, have you studied ancient writing and script? There are many different styles of writing and even fancy writing, but generally the letters are visible enough to be the same.
BTW, the majority of the OT is fable and allegory.
This may be solely your assessment, but this is not so. It is based on some very strong science including archeology. In truth, the Bible has never been found to be incorrect!
Edited by Anita Meyer, : No reason given.

Author Anita Meyer anitameyer1@hotmail.com
The Primordial Language - Confirmation of the Divine Creator
http://www.insearchoftheuniversaltruthpubli.../...guage.html

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by Theodoric, posted 05-15-2010 6:33 PM Anita Meyer has not replied
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Anita Meyer
Member (Idle past 5087 days)
Posts: 33
From: Kenosha, WI.
Joined: 05-13-2010


Message 33 of 139 (560665)
05-16-2010 10:11 PM


Look, I don’t have all day to rehash the Bible with uninformed people - obviously that is why I wrote a book. I have given you ample enough evidence already, and thus I will give it again:
http://www.insearchoftheuniversaltruthpubli.../...nation.pdf
I came here to talk peacefully and amicably. If anyone here is truly interested in conversation, instead of trolling and disrespect, I am here to discuss it, otherwise I will choose not to respond.
If you choose not to believe what I write that is your prerogative, but please keep the sarcasm to yourself.
Sorry, not correct. I am a professional archaeologist and my own research in the United States has shown that the biblical flood story is incorrect. This matches evidence from thousands of other archaeologists, as well as tens of thousands of other -ologists all over the world. Just a sample: strata of the appropriate age, ca. 4,350 years ago, does not have evidence of a massive flood. Another: we have mtDNA from before 4,350 years ago, and after that date, that are from the same exact lineage (numerous examples, including from my own work). Those populations were not wiped out by a flood ca. 4,350 years ago, but rather show continuity across that date. The only conclusion possible is that the flood did not happen as claimed in the bible.
Coyote, you are incorrect about this. Geologist know that the entire earth was covered by marine flood sedimentation (salt water from the sea) consisting of marine fossils which are found in all rock strata. However, except for places that have risen due to plate tectonics places like Yosemite. Since these places were obviously under the ground at the time of the Great Flood and have recently surfaced.
Additionally, rocks that are exposed to water for a length of time (such as the great flood) can cause the elements to leak out do to solubility. Such as salts of uranium and other radioactive elements which are quite capable of dissolving in water, making all the age measurements flat-out USELESS! The proof of how water can effect radioactive dating can be found when the Hawaiian volcano Kilauea was recorded to have erupted less than 200 years ago and the lava from this eruption was submerged under water. It was later dated to be 22 million years old. Other samples come from Hualalai which erupted in 1800 were dated to be 300 thousand million years old.
Are you? You are aware that the Book of Enoch explicitely describes the Earth as flat, right? Or that in the Book of Enoch, the sun moves in relation to the Earth, not the other way around?
Granny Magda, you are incorrect, perhaps you are a selective reader to entertain your fancy contemporary perspective.
Enoch created what is called the henge which has evolved into our modern day calendar of 365 days. Not only was he the first scribe, but he was also the first calendar maker.
In addition to this, the Hebrews clearly knew that the earth was round Luke 17:34-36 - I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed, the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. Two women shall be grinding together, the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two men shall be in the field, the one shall be taken, and the other left. Therefore, when the Lord was describing the manner of His coming to set up His kingdom. In that night, there will be people doing the following three things: (1) sleeping (2) grinding (3) working in the fields. Now the obvious questions to ask oneself is:
When do people sleep? - At night...
When are Eastern women grinding food? - Early morning...
When are men working in the field?- Broad daylight...
This means that at the same moment that G-d comes, it will be night some place on earth, early morning somewhere else, and broad daylight in yet another place. One can easily see that in order for that to be true, THE WORLD WOULD HAVE TO BE ROUND.
Do you really want to open up this can of worms.? Just looking at our favorite bible subject the flood, we can see that the bible is incorrect there. You might want to look at the other threads that discuss this fable. Unless of course, you have some scientific and archaeological evidence that shows it is not a fable. If you do it would probably be worth a few million dollars.
Theodoric, now as to the validity of the Bible... please cite for me what you have discovered is incorrect. As far a Noahs Ark goes no we have not found it yet, but the allegory found in the Bible which includes mathematics has not been discredited. If the biblical math is correct, this helps lend hand to the story. What I am getting at here Theodoric is that you claim the Bible is incorrect, when (as it appears) it is not!
For instance since you bring up Noahs Ark Noah made the ark 300 cubits (450 feet) in length. It was 50 cubits (75 feet) in width, and 30 cubits (45 feet) in height. People believe that back in Bible times a cubit was a man's arm from elbow to fingertips. So normally a cubit was about 18 inches.
People also used math to build King Solomon’s Pool. It was 10 cubits in distance, 5 cubits in height, and its circumference, or distance around, was 30 cubits.
The Ark of the Covenant used math too. It was 2.5 cubits long and 1.5 wide and high. The temple the ark was in was 500 cubits by 500 cubits.
If you want to cite other things in the Bible and continue to try and discredit its authenticity - bring it on!
Now back on the subject of the Hebrew letters What I have given you here is more proof than the theory of evolution will ever provide!
The Bible is the best selling book of all time - this should tell you something.
Edited by Anita Meyer, : No reason given.

Author Anita Meyer anitameyer1@hotmail.com
The Primordial Language - Confirmation of the Divine Creator
http://www.insearchoftheuniversaltruthpubli.../...guage.html

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Anita Meyer
Member (Idle past 5087 days)
Posts: 33
From: Kenosha, WI.
Joined: 05-13-2010


Message 42 of 139 (560751)
05-17-2010 12:05 PM


Hello Otto,
Um, sorry Anita. Postulations about the relative ages for the oldest known writing systems are based on very solid, physical evidence. Methods for dating the extant examples of writing are quite robust now, and considerable care has been taken by many researchers to reduce uncertainties and margins of error. In case you are one of those people who doubt these methods, there's a whole forum here at EvC about dating, and I commend especially the threads initiated by RAZD, about age correlations among different methods. Anyway, based on the evidence, Phoenician was the first known alphabetic writing system, and its relationship to the descendent alphabets of Aramaic, Hebrew, Greek, Coptic, Latin, Cyrillic, Armenian, etc, is reasonably well established. The wikipedia page on Phoenician is a good place to start, as it is based on (and consistent with) several very good reference works on the topic.
Otto, Phoenician writing is nothing more than ancient Hebrew, the same goes for cuneiform which is Samaritan (the oldest thought language and writing). All that cuneiform is, is the Hebrew letters (illustrated by arrows/cuneiform) turned to the left which is just a sideways view of the Hebrew letters. For instance the Hebrew letter G (Gimel) is the same as the Phoenician letter G as well as the cuneiform letter G. The Hebrew letter D (Daled) is the same as the Phoenician letter D. as well as the cuneiform D. The Hebrew letter H (Hey) is the same as the Phoenician letter H, as well as the cuneiform H. the same goes for the Hebrew letter V (vov) which is the same as the Phoenician letter V as well as the cuneiform V. This is also true of the Hebrew letter S (Samech), which matches the Phoenician letter S as well as the cuneiform S. This also follows with the Hebrew letter S (shin) which matches almost like a glove to the Phoenician letter S. as well as the cuneiform S. I could go on and on I have studies the comparison in letters for years already. There are also clear matches in Chinese and Mayan, additionally Egyptian hieroglyphs are just a form of the Phoenician letters in some phonic/illustrative way.
For example here is what the Hebrew letter S (Shin) looks like:
http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:r74iicw4EP5Q8M:http://...
A clear similarity can be seen in both the cuneiform S and Phoenician S, which look like a letter W. Research this for yourself, a simple Google search should suffice.
Which "natures law"? Oh, the thing about Fibonacci and Pi and Phi and binary digits and all that? I'll defer to lyx2no's reply on that. (But I can elaborate on it a little: you left out the equally important relationships between Hebrew and: Tarot cards, shapes of constellations, the movements of the planets (whether around the sun or around the earth), and the human female menstruation cycle -- which brings in the moon's orbit as
I think your trying to get at something here that even you yourself do not even truly understand, but perhaps you are looking for answers on. Yes, I will give you the answer to this! Firstly, take out those false Tarot cards and the shapes of the constellations. Lets focus on the movements of the planets (the Sun and the Moon) and the human female menstruation cycles. This my dear friend leaves us with something very important for sure! What that is, is G-ds signature that He has left on all living things. The 7th day of rest! For it was on this day that G-d finished all things and rested. This day was so important that He made a commandments for it (which is one of the 10).
The number 7 also corresponds to us BIOLOGICALLY! It does so (in part) by the MOONS LUNAR CYCLE. Miraculously, as it turns out, this time period is the most ideal time for the human body (including all other living things) to rejuvenate itself and its cells. Not only seven DAYS, but every cell in the human body is replaced and renewed within a period of seven YEARS. The 7th day pause (for resting and rejuvenating) occurs biologically in nature for none other reason other than G-d making it so. Genesis 2:2-3 - And on the seventh day G-d ended his work which He had made, and He rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And G-d blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it He had rested from all his work which G-d created and made.
The moon has four phases (or quarters) lasting about seven days each. The first two quarters are during the waxing (or increasing light), between the new and the full moon. The third and fourth quarters are after the full moon when the light is waning, (or decreasing).
Interestingly the number 7 also becomes confirmed for us when we observe the gestation periods of living things in nature. For instance ALL bird eggs hatch in multiples of 7 day periods from laying. The hen sits three weeks (which is 21 days - 7x3), while the pigeon sits two weeks (which is 14 days - 7x2). Ducks 28 days, other ducks 35 days, Eagles also 35 days, Owls 28 days, Penguins 49 days, (these are multiples of 7).
And the list goes on Additionally, most animals have a gestation period of multiples of 7. For instance the mouse 21 days (3x7). The rabbit and rat 28 days (4x7). The cat 56 days (8x7). And the dog 63 days (9x7). Again as you can see all multiples of 7.
Nothing, perhaps, is more remarkable with the number 7 then the period of gestation (or pregnancy) in humans. This corresponding period is 280 days or 40x7.
I almost hesitate to ask: what is your position on the relevance of the Tower of Babel story to the history of human languages?
Well if indeed as the linguists suggest that language was derived from genetic evolutionary means. What becomes intriguing is that it can be shown geographically how one language was derived from another.
The evolutionists incorrectly think that if the Tower of Babel event mentioned in the Bible would have resulted in a random and unrelated distribution of tongues, it would not be a distribution that can be so closely tied to linguistic evolution. In other words, the evolutionists think that there WOULD NOT be any relationships at all between languages. But this assumption is quite wrong.
Edited by Anita Meyer, : No reason given.

Author Anita Meyer anitameyer1@hotmail.com
The Primordial Language - Confirmation of the Divine Creator
http://www.insearchoftheuniversaltruthpubli.../...guage.html

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Anita Meyer
Member (Idle past 5087 days)
Posts: 33
From: Kenosha, WI.
Joined: 05-13-2010


Message 43 of 139 (560761)
05-17-2010 12:55 PM


Hello again Otto,
Asserting that the design of Hebrew letters has anything to do with mathematical constants such as the Golden Ratio, Pi, etc, is nothing more than idle and groundless speculation. Showing pictures of seashells and pipe-cleaners bent into odd shapes does not constitute proof of anything having to do with Hebrew letters.
Numbers have everything to do with the Hebrew letters. Numbers (or should I say units of growth) that are found in all of the natural world ALL REVOLVE AROUND THE GOLDEN MEAN SPIRAL - which is a microcosm of the spiral arms of our Universe. Now what I have clearly shown is that that the Hebrew letters (spiraled with this mathematical unit of growth that is found in nature) forms one particular form that in turn forms all the other 21 Hebrew letters. Divine Design my dear friend!
If it is so groundless as you say, then you have to specify in what way? Because there is something clearly here that science has no rationalization for.
You are starting with an unshakable belief that the Bible is inerrant, and that your own peculiar interpretation of it is correct. You then decide that there must be something profoundly divine about the Hebrew language and writing system. From there, it's just one gaffe after another as you try to sustain these ideas in the face of both real-world evidence and what the Bible actually says.
I know explicitly what the Bible has to say about this it tells us in Exodus 31:18 that the Hebrew letters that were written on the tablets of stone (10 commandments) were inscribed by the finger of G-d!
In trying to refute Coyote, your notion of what geologists know is simply too confused, and too far off the mark from what geologists have actually said about sedimentation, marine fossils and strata, to be taken seriously. Yes, all sedimentary strata were underwater at some time or another -- that's because sediments are laid down in sea beds, the particles having been eroded from higher ground by rain and flowing water, and deposited at the point where the water enters the sea. But there hasn't been any single point when all ground was covered by sea water at the same time. That is what geologists know.
There is lots of strong evidence that points to a Great Flood! And as I said in an earlier posting WATER throws all dating methods off, whether water happened at the time of creation or at anytime during the Earths history of flooding!
In order to refute Granny Magda's point about the Book of Enoch describing a flat earth, you cite the NT book of Luke, on a completely unrelated matter, and extrapolate a meaning from the latter passage which the original author surely did not intend.
I clearly made the connective affirmation that Enoch was the first calendar maker. He created what is called the henge similar to Stone Henge. In fact archeologists have found several of these ancient henges in the Middle East. Basically the henge was the very tool that Enoch had employed, which was taught to him by G-d since he was taken up and shown how the planetary system works (it which he would have seen that the Earth was round and how all the planets revolved). It is a misinterpretation when thinking that the book of Enoch was referring to a flat Earth. The henge was used to determine when to plant seeds and harvest based on this very knowledge, basically it was all about the science of the seasons for survival purposes.
Your attribution of meaningful "math" in the OT includes the description of Solomon's Pool, which, if it was intended to be circular, was described with an arithmetic error of over one part in 30: if it really was a circle with a diameter of 10 cubits, the circumference would have had to be about 31.4 cubits (not 30). It's not that the margin of error in the passage is a terrible flaw -- it's an okay approximation for people who didn't have a well-formed system of fractional numbers, and who weren't trying to write a math textbook. The terrible flaw lies in your own rationale of using this as evidence for some sort of "special truth" that really doesn't qualify as truth.
No, its not by flaw of interpreting the math of the Bible incorrectly, and it is sure not the flaw either of the biblical writers. There is no margin of error here if one truly understands ancient math.
It has to do with Pi (3.14), the ratio of a circle's circumference to its diameter, which state the ratio of 3:1, a very rough estimate of Pi which is partially calculated as 3.14159. (The digits keep going forever without any known pattern). It's a given that the ancients did not use the number symbols we use, called Arabic numerals, these symbols didn't become popular until the 10th Century. But the Hebrews had words for numbers and used the letters of the Aleph-Bet in place of numbers. And of course they were no strangers to the concept of infinity.
Additionally King Solomon's pool had a lip, which would add a bit to the 3, not quite one seventh which is needed to be a fairly accurate Pi, but nonetheless intriguing.
Another overlooked source is in the Babylonian Talmud Tractate Eruvin 14a. The statement is made that for every circle the ratio of the circumference to the diameter is 3:1 regarding King Solomon’s pool.
And if you understood your high school math, I'll tell you something very important regarding Pi. Remembering just what it is that makes Pi unique is that it can't be described in a fraction it is irrational. 22/7 is approximate. Through Gematria, we find a more exact version of Pi based on a fraction. Gematria is the numerical system of the Hebrew letters. In the verses describing the math of King Solomons pool the word for diameter is kav - spelled kuf vuv, which would have the numerical value of 106. But instead, in this passage it is spelled with an extra hey, - kuf vuv hey - which makes it 111.
Now if you notice that if the value of 111/106 for the diameter is multiplied by 3 for the circumference the result is 3.1415, a much closer approximation to Pi than the simple reading of the text.
Conclusion: The ancients knew their math - maybe even better than we do today!
Edited by Anita Meyer, : No reason given.

Author Anita Meyer anitameyer1@hotmail.com
The Primordial Language - Confirmation of the Divine Creator
http://www.insearchoftheuniversaltruthpubli.../...guage.html

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Anita Meyer
Member (Idle past 5087 days)
Posts: 33
From: Kenosha, WI.
Joined: 05-13-2010


Message 49 of 139 (560781)
05-17-2010 3:42 PM


Posted by Anita meyer. The proof of how water can effect radioactive dating can be found when the Hawaiian volcano Kilauea was recorded to have erupted less than 200 years ago and the lava from this eruption was submerged under water. It was later dated to be 22 million years old. Other samples come from Hualalai which erupted in 1800 were dated to be 300 thousand million years old.
Posted by Coyote. This, of course, has nothing to do with uranium salts leaching out, and everything to do with the fact that the K-Ar method can't be applied to pillow basalt, as you'd know if you'd taken a moment's interest in the subject you're talking nonsense about.
Yes, this may be the case regarding Hawaiian pillow basalts with anomalous K-Ar ages because it may have something to do with trapping argon before it can escape? It may be that this particular rock is unsuitable for radiometric dating. But it still does not erase the fact that WATER causes elements to leak out do to solubility, thus not allowing us to get proper dates and likewise as we can see with the Hawaiian volcano. The conclusion here is carbon or radiometric dating (if its older than the half-life) is basically for the birds since it is unreliable!
You may have said it, but that doesn't make it true. In fact, it is totally wrong.
Just one example: Radiocarbon dating is not affected by water, and in fact marine shells make fine dating samples. I have probably obtained about 500 dates using marine shells. (How many have you obtained?)
Carbon only has a half-life! Have these marine shells (that you have dated) recently died? Additionally marine shells are not rocks unless they are petrified (in which case cannot be dated).
I provided you with other reasons we can say the flood never happened about 4,350 years ago: archaeological research shows no flood at that time period, and mtDNA shows continuity across that time period. You have ignored those points, just as you will probably ignore your mistake on radiocarbon dating.
Evidence of Noah’s Flood can be seen all over the earth, from seabed’s to mountaintops. The Earths terrain clearly indicates a catastrophic past, from canyons and craters to coal beds and caverns. Some layers of strata extend across continents, revealing the effects of a huge catastrophe. The earth’s crust has massive amounts of layered sedimentary rock, sometimes miles (kilometers) deep! These layers of sand, soil, and material - mostly laid down by water - were once soft like mud, but they are now hard stone. Encased in these sedimentary layers are billions of dead things (fossils of plants and animals) buried very quickly! The evidence is EVERYWHERE!
Oh you would be amazed Coyote! There is ample enough evidence for Noah’s Great worldwide flood and its just not found in rock strata, but in human population growth.
If we have a current population of approximately 7 billion people on the planet today, and we‘ve been taking population censuses ever since biblical times and it has been determined that the world population has historically doubled every 150 years. This works out nicely upon which the 7 billion population we have today is equivalent to 8 people walking off an ark and 150 years later there are only 12 people (give or take a few) on the earth and 300 years later 24 people (give or take a few) on the earth. If you estimate this correctly you only have to double 30 times to get the current population of the world 30x150 years means they walked off that ark after the great flood approximately 4500 years ago. It may not be a perfect method or estimation, but it sure does agree with G-d’s word.
Edited by Anita Meyer, : No reason given.

Author Anita Meyer anitameyer1@hotmail.com
The Primordial Language - Confirmation of the Divine Creator
http://www.insearchoftheuniversaltruthpubli.../...guage.html

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Anita Meyer
Member (Idle past 5087 days)
Posts: 33
From: Kenosha, WI.
Joined: 05-13-2010


Message 50 of 139 (560783)
05-17-2010 3:53 PM


It's also not correct to define incubation period simply as the time between laying and hatching, as consistent incubation (and thus development of the embryo) in many species does not begin until the clutch is complete - several days after the first egg is laid. This ensures the eggs all hatch at about the same time, despite their differences in 'age'.
Hello Aiki,
I’d have to say that Birds are complicated in truly understanding gestation periods, since this includes the time between laying and hatch, but animals highlight this for us enough to know that birds are also subjected to it despite the discriminate time between laying and hatching.
Posted by Anita Meyer. Additionally, most animals have a gestation period of multiples of 7. For instance the mouse 21 days (3x7). The rabbit and rat 28 days (4x7). The cat 56 days (8x7). And the dog 63 days (9x7). Again as you can see all multiples of 7. Nothing, perhaps, is more remarkable with the number 7 then the period of gestation (or pregnancy) in humans. This corresponding period is 280 days or 40x7.
Edited by Anita Meyer, : No reason given.

Author Anita Meyer anitameyer1@hotmail.com
The Primordial Language - Confirmation of the Divine Creator
http://www.insearchoftheuniversaltruthpubli.../...guage.html

Replies to this message:
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Anita Meyer
Member (Idle past 5087 days)
Posts: 33
From: Kenosha, WI.
Joined: 05-13-2010


Message 53 of 139 (560787)
05-17-2010 4:19 PM


Hello Anita and welcome to EVC!
Dokukaeru, thank you for welcoming me!
Anita writes:
Lets focus on the movements of the planets (the Sun and the Moon) and the human female menstruation cycles. This my dear friend leaves us with something very important for sure!
This is all very INTERESTING!!! Could you please explain this? I think you got excited and forgot to explain the incredible importance of planets and menstrual cycles.....
Anita, the lunar cycle is approximately 29.5 days, which leaves 1.5 days unaccounted for in your philosophy.
Both Dokukaeru and Parasomnium,
The amazing thing about a woman’s menstrual cycle is that it takes place every 28 days and lasts for approximately seven days. However seven days prior to the onset of a cycle certain hormonal chemicals come into play and a woman can start to feel her breast hurting. And after the seven day cycle the hormones begin to decrease within the next seven days. The menstrual cycle is broken down and deduced within a month (4 weeks in a month x 7 days in a week, equals 28 days). The reason a woman gets her menstrual cycle on the 28th day of each month, and why the menstrual cycle last for 7 days, is because Eve had to have been created on the 6th day late in the evening possibly around the early hours of the approaching 7th day. Which in the scheme of things may have some relevance to why a woman’s menstrual cycle last for 7 days (4 weeks in a month x 7 days in a week, equals 28 days). It may also have something to do with the fact that the Moon makes a complete turn (or cycle) around the earth in approximately 29 days. From new Moon to new Moon is a synodic time lasting 29.53059 days (precisely 29 days, 12 hours, 44 minutes, 2.8 seconds). And the sidereal cycle, the measure taken from where the moon appears at the same place in the sky which is 27.33 days. Since neither of these cycles accurately measure the solar cycle the 28th day is an average of the two main lunar cycles.
Edited by Anita Meyer, : No reason given.

Author Anita Meyer anitameyer1@hotmail.com
The Primordial Language - Confirmation of the Divine Creator
http://www.insearchoftheuniversaltruthpubli.../...guage.html

Replies to this message:
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Anita Meyer
Member (Idle past 5087 days)
Posts: 33
From: Kenosha, WI.
Joined: 05-13-2010


Message 54 of 139 (560789)
05-17-2010 4:29 PM


As you can see here there are plenty of exceptions to your "rule of 7" , and many of them are inaccurate as well. As far as gestation periods are concerned, nothing can be concluded from them with regard to a special meaning of the number 7.
Gestation may very - depending on the New/Full Moon.
This 7 day cycle can also be witnessed in the duration days from the onset of a diseases symptoms, development and resolve. Even organ transplant patients tend to have more rejection episodes on the 7/8th , 14/15th , 21/22nd, and 28/29th days after surgery. These dates fall on days slightly before a full moon WHICH SHOULD BE A DAY OF REST! In effect the body’s immune system attack the foreign organ. Furthermore, an even bigger rejection occurs seven days after the organ transplant operation. It is also further witnessed that medications administered at particular times may be more effective than at other times. And, it has also been witnessed that viruses, pneumonia, and malaria infection peak at seven days. Most of us are also familiar with the common cold usually lasting a period of 7days (sometimes even two weeks).
Edited by Anita Meyer, : No reason given.

Author Anita Meyer anitameyer1@hotmail.com
The Primordial Language - Confirmation of the Divine Creator
http://www.insearchoftheuniversaltruthpubli.../...guage.html

Replies to this message:
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Anita Meyer
Member (Idle past 5087 days)
Posts: 33
From: Kenosha, WI.
Joined: 05-13-2010


Message 62 of 139 (560824)
05-17-2010 8:40 PM


1) I am aware of the half-life of C14. However, C12 does not have a half-life, as it is not undergoing radioactive decay; nor does C13, a stable isotope. The fact that C14 has a half-life is what allows us to date it! That fact can't be used as an argument against the method as radiocarbon dating would be impossible otherwise.
2) Marine shells make fine specimens for radiocarbon dating. No, they are not rocks. You can't radiocarbon date rocks, but shells contain carbon so they can be radiocarbon dated. And when they died is what you measure when doing radiocarbon dating. I have obtained dates on shell back some 9,000 years, and my colleagues have gone quite a bit older than that.
Evidence of water deposition is found in many places. Unfortunately for your case, those deposits are spread over hundreds of millions of years! For evidence of Noah's flood we would need to see deposits centered around 4,350 years ago so. Cambrian deposits, for example, do you no good (being over 500 million years too old). For the time period associated with the flood story (about 4,350 years ago) you need to examine soils, not rocks, and that leads to archaeology rather than geology. And archaeology is what I do. Again, unfortunately for your case, neither archaeology or sedimentology provide evidence for your a priori beliefs and conclusions. In fact, they refute them convincingly. The early creationist geologists, seeking to document the global flood, gave up just about 200 years ago. All you need to do to refute the idea of a worldwide flood about 4,350 years ago is find one archaeological site with a deposit cross-cutting that time period but showing no evidence of a discontinuity that could be attributed to a massive flood. I have tested over a hundred sites that cross-cut that time period, and what I have found is continuity of human cultures, fauna and flora, site formation, and in one case continuity of mtDNA. In other words, there was no discontinuity in just those things that would be disrupted by a flood.
Hello Coyote,
I know all about dating process, you don’t have to go on and elaborate to me (but thank you for putting the effort into your posts - much apprciated). What I do know is that all dating processes is a imperfect science! What’s more, the early earth had more oxygen. We witness this in the fossil records In the fossil record we find insects and animals that still exist today, the only difference is they were MUCH BIGGER back then!
This indicates that the early earths atmosphere was quite different, perhaps a hyperbaric chamber of sorts (likened onto a terrarium and greenhouse effect). The Bible describes that the Earths atmosphere before the flood was quite different with a separating water canopy.
Genesis 1:6-8 - And G-d said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. And G-d made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. And G-d called the firmament Heaven.
Genesis 2:5-6 - And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the Lord G-d had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground. But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
This mist that came up from the face of the ground is the exact effect expected if the earth was surrounded by a vapor canopy.
This atmosphere would also throw carbon dates off after the Great Flood There was much more oxygen and carbon in the atmosphere which would suggest that there was more plants and trees, which created more oxygen which allowed things to grow much bigger - both plants, insects and animals. This high concentration most likely contained enormous amounts of carbon. Additionally, when insects eat trees and plants, even more carbon is released into the air and eventually THE GROUND. Therefore, we cannot say with any true confidence that the earth is billions of years old!
Carboniferous - Wikipedia
Now Coyote, you can go on believing what you like, but as for me I do not fit into the little square box of what science tries to cram down societies throat as evolutionary fact. I believe G-d’s word through, threw and thru! The Bible is a recorded piece of historical documentation, it is not mythological as some claim, there is some very real science here. Another thing you must remember is that the Evolution Theory is still only a theory there was no witnesses to seeing it happen. However we do have a recorded eye-witness - the Bible.
The human population growth argument is too old and tired to be worth refuting once again. It is a creationist fantasy.
Please do tell!
Edited by Anita Meyer, : No reason given.

Author Anita Meyer anitameyer1@hotmail.com
The Primordial Language - Confirmation of the Divine Creator
http://www.insearchoftheuniversaltruthpubli.../...guage.html

Replies to this message:
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Anita Meyer
Member (Idle past 5087 days)
Posts: 33
From: Kenosha, WI.
Joined: 05-13-2010


Message 72 of 139 (561031)
05-18-2010 1:49 PM


3) We are able to account for atmospheric variations in C14 through tree ring calibrations and other methods. The divergence doesn't get beyond about 10% at the most, and modern dating methods let us correct for that. We have continuous tree ring sequences for several parts of the world that extend much beyond the purported dates for the global flood. That allows us to calibrate our radiocarbon dates for atmospheric fluctuations. (And it also shows that there was no flood, as those tree rings are from things like the standing dead bristlecone pines in the White Mountains of southern California.)
Coyote, I do happen to know that one of the oldest trees is called Methuselah (named after the longest lived of all the biblical patriarchs). It is a bristlecone pine tree that grows on a remote hillside near Las Vegas Nevada. This tree is proclaimed to be the oldest known living thing on Earth. Nearly 5,000 years old!
Only 5,000 years old, this sure fits into the Biblical perspective!
However, I also happen to know that sometimes a tree might produce two rings in a year. You can generally tell because the rings are narrower than normal. It is also possible a tree might not produce a ring in a given year because of a succession of droughts, fire, or even a bug infestation can influence tree rings. THIS WOULD MAKE TREE RINGS UNRELIABLE AS A TESTING METHOD. There have even been some rare finds where a tree can grow continuously and not produce any rings. This can occur if the environments temperature (and moisture) remain consistent. These type of environmental conditions may have certainly been prevalent before the Great Flood.
As far as all processes for dating are concerned, I will repeat myself again. ALL PROCESSES ARE UNRELIABLE! It is an imperfect and unperfected science that continually has anomalous results.
And I did that without looking anything up on the web! Can you say the same?
Carboniferous - Wikipedia
Has nothing to do with any purported flood. The Carboniferous was millions of years ago, while the purported flood was about 4,350 years ago.
The dates for the Carboniferous are purely rubbish! Additionally, that wasn’t what I was trying to prove. I was proving from that website that living things grew bigger because of the OXYGEN content of the early atmosphere which also grew more and bigger plants and trees that the animals and insects ate, which eventually ended up in the GROUND, which would account for high levels of carbon that suggest millions/billions of years. If this is the case, then obviously some of the processes for dating things are INCORRECT.
As far as my book goes, I am not here to sell it as some claim. I am here to get the GOOD WORD out. People have been dumbed-down and I am here to reeducate.
Everything that I have written still stands firm! Nobody here has made any sort of strong dent in disclaiming anything that I have said thus far.
Know one thing science does not really tell us the origin of ANYTHING!
Edited by Anita Meyer, : No reason given.
Edited by Anita Meyer, : No reason given.

Author Anita Meyer anitameyer1@hotmail.com
The Primordial Language - Confirmation of the Divine Creator
http://www.insearchoftheuniversaltruthpubli.../...guage.html

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