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Author Topic:   Star formation
killinghurts
Member (Idle past 5023 days)
Posts: 150
Joined: 04-23-2008


Message 1 of 39 (556305)
04-18-2010 11:20 PM


1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
1:17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
Modern science explains the formation of stars from matter (wiki gives a reasonably good explanation Star formation - Wikipedia). There are no requirements for supernatural intervention.
So.. a pretty simple question:
If we can now explain the formation of stars without supernatural intervention, on what grounds does the bible claim god created them?

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Huntard, posted 04-19-2010 7:11 AM killinghurts has replied
 Message 4 by Flyer75, posted 04-19-2010 7:49 AM killinghurts has not replied
 Message 9 by Peepul, posted 04-19-2010 11:23 AM killinghurts has not replied
 Message 10 by Rahvin, posted 04-19-2010 11:46 AM killinghurts has not replied
 Message 11 by purpledawn, posted 04-19-2010 1:50 PM killinghurts has not replied
 Message 24 by hooah212002, posted 04-19-2010 11:40 PM killinghurts has replied
 Message 30 by xavierkress, posted 04-20-2010 11:53 PM killinghurts has not replied
 Message 36 by AdminPD, posted 04-21-2010 12:09 PM killinghurts has not replied
 Message 38 by Taq, posted 04-22-2010 1:16 AM killinghurts has replied

  
killinghurts
Member (Idle past 5023 days)
Posts: 150
Joined: 04-23-2008


Message 19 of 39 (556449)
04-19-2010 11:15 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Huntard
04-19-2010 7:11 AM


"Huntard" writes:
God could not have created stars through natural means becasue...?
Interesting you use the word "could", implying probability - anything is possible, even last Thursday-ism is possible.
But to answer your question as reasonably as I can:
reality tells us otherwise.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Huntard, posted 04-19-2010 7:11 AM Huntard has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by Huntard, posted 04-20-2010 7:45 AM killinghurts has replied

  
killinghurts
Member (Idle past 5023 days)
Posts: 150
Joined: 04-23-2008


Message 22 of 39 (556452)
04-19-2010 11:34 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Flyer75
04-19-2010 9:04 AM


"Flyer75 writes:
Ahhh...I see. I guess we'll have to wait for the OP to weigh in and see if he has more to add.
I had understood that you agreed with my second point, I just wanted to clarify that using his premise, we can apply a creationist perspective to everything, even evolution, for the theistic evolutionists or gap theorists out there.
You can generalize the issue, for sure. I just wanted to narrow the scope a little.
The point I am trying to make here is:
The bible says God "made two great lights".
One cannot "make" light with hydrogen or gravity alone - only when hydrogen is under the effect of gravity do we see star formation.
We know gravity pulls hydrogen atoms together, not God.
Therefore it is technically incorrect to claim "God" made the light, as we now know the combination of gravity and hydrogen makes it.
You can argue all you like that God made the hydrogen and the gravity and "set them into motion" but we know now that he did not make the light, as it is gravity and hydrogen which makes light.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Flyer75, posted 04-19-2010 9:04 AM Flyer75 has not replied

  
killinghurts
Member (Idle past 5023 days)
Posts: 150
Joined: 04-23-2008


Message 26 of 39 (556456)
04-19-2010 11:49 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by hooah212002
04-19-2010 11:40 PM


"hooah212002" writes:
How do we know god isn't the invisible puppet master? How can we be certain that he/she/it isn't out there slamming molecules and atoms together for shits and giggles, making it look natural (natural from our perspective, of course).
That's a claim that needs to be proven, until then there is no evidence to suggest there is an invisible puppet.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by hooah212002, posted 04-19-2010 11:40 PM hooah212002 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by hooah212002, posted 04-19-2010 11:54 PM killinghurts has replied

  
killinghurts
Member (Idle past 5023 days)
Posts: 150
Joined: 04-23-2008


Message 28 of 39 (556461)
04-20-2010 12:36 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by hooah212002
04-19-2010 11:54 PM


"hooah212002" writes:
Of course of course, and I wholeheartedly concur. However, this IS the F&B section......I suppose I am just playing devils advocate.
With an avatar like that, how could i think otherwise?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by hooah212002, posted 04-19-2010 11:54 PM hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied

  
killinghurts
Member (Idle past 5023 days)
Posts: 150
Joined: 04-23-2008


Message 37 of 39 (556958)
04-21-2010 10:47 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by Huntard
04-20-2010 7:45 AM


"Huntard" writes:
You have glimpsed god's abilities from reality? Do tell how you did this, I'm sure a lot of theologians are intersted in this.
You have completely misunderstood my statement. Please go back and read it carefully.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Huntard, posted 04-20-2010 7:45 AM Huntard has not replied

  
killinghurts
Member (Idle past 5023 days)
Posts: 150
Joined: 04-23-2008


Message 39 of 39 (557583)
04-27-2010 12:10 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by Taq
04-22-2010 1:16 AM


"Taq" writes:
Has God ever answered your prayers? If yes, were those answers the product of what could be considered natural occurences? If yes, then what's the BFD? From my time in christianity (the first 22 years of my life) all testimonies tended to center around very natural occurrences. A sign here, a person talking to them there. It would seem to me that the actions of God occur through nature more often than not. Why would the act of creation be any different?
Very interesting reply.
I seem to find this quite common among religious people. Start out with the conclusion (God did it) and then find the evidence to fit ("natural occurences").
Thanks

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Taq, posted 04-22-2010 1:16 AM Taq has not replied

  
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