Divinity of Jesus

Hi Jaywill,i just wanted to comment on the proverb 8.22. I understand your version uses the word 'possessed me' and this certainly does imply that perhaps Jesus had always been with God as long as God was.However, you are aware that Proverbs was written in Hebrew originally. Your translation is using a latin word which suggests its a translation made from the latin language(?). I know this becuase your translation uses the word 'produced me'. This is found in latin texts the word is pos.se'dit me or "Possessed me"If were to read this verse in Hebrew, you would see that the word "qa.na'ni is used. This hebrew word means 'produced'. (NWT is translated directly from Hebrew into english)
Now in the greek translations, they use the greek word e'kti.sen' me and it means 'created me'The original languages both use 'created me' and 'produced me' where your translation reads 'possessed me'Its important for you to consider this and perhaps find yourself a translation that is made directly from the hebrew and greek so that you have something to compare them with. Edited by Peg, : No reason given.

Hi slevesque, So what about: Jesus did not claim to be a Son of God.He claimed to be God.The Jews understood what He meant and took up stones to stone Him.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

but as you can surely see from each of those translations i quoted, Jesus was not claiming to be God.If you really want to reason that the Jews thought he was saying he was God, then that may well be, but the writers of the gospel certainly did not believe Jesus was saying he was God. They wrote it that he said he was 'Gods Son'big difference if you ask me.

The fact that he said he and the father were 'one' does not mean they were the same person. He also said his disciples could become 'one' with both God and Christ...John 17:20"I make request, not concerning these only, but also concerning those putting faith in me through their word; 21in order that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us,"Being 'one' does not mean they are the same 'one' person. It means they are in unison with each other, they are at one in purpose, they are one in cooperation.

No, we all don't use the same book. JW's use their re-written Bible, Mormons have their Book of Morman, and other cults have their own special books. All cults claim that historic Christianity is in error, and that their way founded by a new leader such a Russell or a Smith will provide a better way to God.The Lord Jesus Christ who now sits at the right hand of God the Father (Luke 22:69, Acts 2:33) declared this to those who can hear, The Lord Jesus Christ is still the only way to know the true and living God who is ONE GOD.If some still think this is mumbo-jumbo, why not read the Bible for yourself, instead of relying what what you have heard others say.

I have read the Bible, cover to cover over 20 times and each time became more convinced that it is either mythology, allegory or pure fiction.

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There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008

I don't think we could ever call it 'pure' fiction, since there is some verifiable history in it. I suppose we could call a lot of it 'historical fiction', but even the false history of the Bible tends to have some verifiable elements to it. But, it would depend on what we were examining.I would say though that if we were taking Jesus as the central figure of the entire Bible, old t and new, then I think there's a real possibility that this aspect is pure fiction. When we see the lengths that the evangelists go to to make Jesus fit messianic prophecies (and some that aren't messianic) it should alert us that something untoward is going on. If Jesus was the messiah then they would not have had to make up so many lies about Him, or twist so many prophecies to fit His life.But there is definitely mythology in a lot of the Bible. Adam and Eve, the Flood, Joseph, and the life of Moses are some examples, but it is well documented that the post-exilic books start to get more historically accurate. The supernatural stuff can only be accepted on faith. We also have to remember that a lot of natural events were given supernatural explanations by the ancients.For me, these these aspects of the Bible, the songs, poems, myths, folk legends, the borrowing of literature from other cultures, the false history, the aetiologies, the obvious fictional narratives are what makes the Bible special, the fundies miss out on all this with their very blinkered approach.

What I have always found suprising is that the people who know the Bible best, espeically here at EvC, are atheists, many ex-believers of course.It is very strange because we would think that the believers would have a far better knowlegde of the Bible than the atheists do but it definitely is not the case.Wonder why that is?

Understanding what is a Christian cult and what is a false religion is precisely what this topic is all about. It all centers on the Person of the Lord Jesus Christ and His Divinity.Judaism rejected Jesus as their Messiah, and still follows the Old Covenant/Torah for the most part.Muhammad rejected His Divinity, death on a cross, resurrection and exaltation to the right hand of God the Father, and thus the Quran/Islam was written in the 7th century.Jehovah Witnesses and Mormons did the same in the 19th century, founding their cults.Unbelievers consider anything related to God mumbo-jumbo, especially when it requires them to be accountable to God. PS - Why not read it for the 21st time with faith?

Why not read the Qur'an with faith?

Why do you assume we who do not believe have never read the bible? I have read the bible numerous times and I seem to know more about what it says than most christians I know. I have read it it without the preconceived ideas that christians read it with.My findings? It is mumbo jumbo.

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Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

If God exists, He exists,period. No amount of human interpretation, proof, or opinion will change the fact. AND....If God does not exist, He does not exist despite any Dogma, Belief, or proof that He does exist.It always helps to have actually read the material, and I admit that I often do not read it but, rather, regurgitate dogma I have been taught.I get angry when non-believers state that God is fictional, however. They don't know any more than I know that He is real. Edited by Phat, : spellinEdited by Phat, : redirectional

Reading the Bible, and reading the Bible "with faith", having God reward those that dilligently seek Him (Heb 11:6) are two very different things.You may have done the former, but not the latter.

Hi Theodoric, It is not an assumption. It is a fact.If you don't believe it makes no difference how many times you have mouthed the words you still have not read it, nor do you understand it's message.Isn't that what Paul said to the Corintians. God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Peg, Do you realize "one with", and one are two different things?You may not see it that way but the Jew's present certainly did as they took up stones to stone Him.Jesus also told Philip: He told Philip one of the Apostles, "he that hath seen me hath seen the Father;"It sure sound's to me like Jesus is saying we are one and the same.These statements are the reason the Jews killed Jesus because He claimed to be God.But I am sure your Bible don't say that so I am just talking to everybody else.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."