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Author | Topic: Starlight | |||||||||||||||||||
onifre Member (Idle past 2980 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
Hi Mr. Jack,
Cavediver writes: which is actually a variation in the fine structure constant, rather than c itself, as that is a fairly meaningless concept
Mr.Jack writes: That's interesting; if it's not too complicated to explain, why is that? Here's an article that can give you some basic understanding on it before Cavediver get's a chance to answer it.
The fine structure constant Alpha quote: Hopefully Cave can explain it better for us. Hope the article helps, though. - Oni "I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your mouth."--Bill Hicks "I never knew there was another option other than to question everything"--Noam Chomsky
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onifre Member (Idle past 2980 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
As I understand it...
can we measure the red shift stars close to us The redshift occurs with distant galaxies, not individual stars. Especially not anything in our Local Group - which is what I'm assuming you were visibly looking at. In fact, our Local Group, which the 2 largest galaxies are the Milky Way and Andromeda, are actually coming toward each other.
quote: Source Furthermore, both redshift and blueshift aren't a visible phenomenon, it's is a measurment of the frequency of the emited light.
quote: Same source as above.
Do we only see their motion relative to our galaxy, or can we see the motion from the big bang? Relative to us, and only when they are far enough from us. Hope this helped. - Oni "I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your mouth."--Bill Hicks "I never knew there was another option other than to question everything"--Noam Chomsky
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onifre Member (Idle past 2980 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
Hi Taq,
If expansion is accelerating will there be a point where expansion overpowers the gravity within a galaxy? According to the Big Rip hypothesis that's exactly what will happen.
quote: Hope this helped. - Oni Edited by onifre, : No reason given. Edited by onifre, : No reason given. "I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your mouth."--Bill Hicks "I never knew there was another option other than to question everything"--Noam Chomsky
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onifre Member (Idle past 2980 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
I could find my old log, but I believe I looked at a few galaxies through my scope. I remember, m-101, m-31, m81 and 82, I think m-105. No need, I'm sure you did as there are many within our Local Group.
Everything in our galaxy is moving with us, so universal expansion is undetectable. I believe you are getting a few facts confused here, RR. The galaxies within our Local Group are measurable, they show a Blue Shift indicating that they are coming toward us. This is the affect that Cave was talking about due to the Galactic core's gravitational attraction. The Blue Shifting of the galaxies within our Local Group is a measured fact.
So it is moving too slowly away from us to measure using Hubble's law. The galaxies within our Local Group have been measured and are Blue Shifting rather than Red Shifting. PS. If you don't mind could you split the posts and not put both me and cavediver on the same post. He knows a shit load more than I do and I'd hate for him to miss a question that can help both you and I because he may not notice that you replied to him on the post for me, thanks. - Oni Edited by onifre, : No reason given. "I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your mouth."--Bill Hicks "I never knew there was another option other than to question everything"--Noam Chomsky
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onifre Member (Idle past 2980 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
Some of the local group galaxies are blueshifted, but some are redshifted. Since the three big ones, the Milky Way, Andromeda, and Triangulum, are in mutual orbits of some complicated sort, and the little ones are in orbits around the big ones, any particular galaxy can be heading toward us or away in any particular megamillenium. Thanks for the correction, Coragyps. I knew I should have looked that up to make sure, but I also knew if I was wrong someone would catch it. So question, is the megamillenial shifting to and from caused by Dark Energy - versus - gravity of the Galactic center/core? As I was reading up I noticed they mentioned Leo I was one of the furthest.
quote: Does it's distance have anything to do with it's red shifting?
I made that last word up, I think. Apparently some Russian (I'm guesing by the letters and movies I've seen) gaming website has the name. Games is the only english word I saw. So it looks like the Russian gaming nerds beat you to that word. - Oni Edited by onifre, : No reason given. "I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your mouth."--Bill Hicks "I never knew there was another option other than to question everything"--Noam Chomsky
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onifre Member (Idle past 2980 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
Minor quibble:
Especially since objects are attracted to each other, something must be driving them apart. Objects are not really attracted to each other, especially not by any "force"; that is old Newtonian physics. The seemingly attractive nature of gravity is due to mass's affect on space itself, not a force.
If all the stars within our dot are moving with us, we can't measure their expansion relative to the rest of the universe. The expansion doesn't affect individual stars. - Oni "I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your mouth."--Bill Hicks "I never knew there was another option other than to question everything"--Noam Chomsky
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onifre Member (Idle past 2980 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
Hi Rev,
What exactly do you mean by changing the alpha, the energy? As cavediver said, it's complicated. However here's a link that explains what alpha is and what *affects* it has on the speed of light.
Alpha constantquote: I don't fully grasp it that well myself either, so any questions you have should be directed to cavediver, or someone else with more knowledge of this than I do. But I hope it helped. - Oni
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onifre Member (Idle past 2980 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
Hi Rev,
The speed of light has been slowed considerably in laboratory experiments and its different in a vacuum than in say earths atmosphere. The speed of light or (c) is constant. It does not change in a vacuum. What you are talking about, like with the Bose-Einstein theory - (which you got incorrect. Einstein and Bose did not slow down the speed of light, they proposed the thoery.) - is a medium set up to slow it down. As with air, or our atmosphere. The one propose by the Einstein-Bose condensate is a Super-atomic cloud/medium. Here's an article from Harvard on the experiment itself. Physicist slow down spped of light quote: Hope this helped, - Oni Edited by onifre, : No reason given. Edited by onifre, : No reason given.
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onifre Member (Idle past 2980 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
Does the big bang math or empirical experiments say that this is the only universe spawned, or is it possible that meta verses to sprang from the BB? The Big Bang model, the current model for the expansion of the universe, is only for our universe. Multi-verse hypothesis/theories are not covered in the Big Bang mdel. - Oni
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onifre Member (Idle past 2980 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
Thanks onfire that may silence lot of anti KCA people who are members in another forum. They are attempting to discredit the KCA by saying that the Big Bang allowed many universes which would weaken the first cause argument (ie the KCA). I don't know what the KCA is, so I don't know what you're talking about. However, the Big Bang model, or the expansion model does not support a "first cause" argument. The Big Bang is not an event that took place, in other words, it's not a moment of "creation." However, that does not mean that multi-verses don't exists. Or as cavediver put it, that there are multiple multi-verse systems. It just means that the Big Bang model doesn't address it. It is addressed in other theories in theoretical physics. BUt it would be pointless to argue this since it is clear that you have very little knowledge of cosmology and physics. I'm not trying to insult you, I'm just stating the obvious. - Oni
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onifre Member (Idle past 2980 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
The MWI or MWT has no empirical evidence to support it. Only mathematical pipe dreams much like ”string theory”. You don't want people to insult you but then you make ignorant statements like the one above? You'll get back what you dish out. If you're going to act like a douchebag you will be treated as such. What do you know about string theory? You read some layman book, probably Brian Greene, and now you feel you can discredit the work done by actual theoretical physicist? Please, Rev! You're currently talking completely out of your ass and you have no knowledge of the subject to be able to give a proper, educated opinion on it. - Oni
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onifre Member (Idle past 2980 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
Well I am a serious amateur astronomer and am well respected by my peers, so no I am not insulted by your comments because you are simply attempting to save face amongst your peers. Save face? Amongst my peers? , you might want to read a few of my post before you start accusing me of trying to save face.
BTW I have a MA in C. Theology and will provide proof if anyone wants to pay for copies and my time to get my records to them. That's like having a degree from clown school. PS. no one gives a shit. Plus we are discussing cosmology, your degree is worthless in this subject. And in my opinion, worthless all together. You might as well have said you studied at Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry.
Whats that clicking sound? Hark! its the sound of all the Google scientists here looking for 'what the hell is the KCA'? Again, no one gives a shit. I was actually a comedy writer for the KCA, also refered to as the Kids Choice Awards for Nickelodeon. And by the way, "serious amateur astronomer," means your an idiot with a telescope on the roof of your house. - Oni
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