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Author | Topic: Starlight | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
RevCrossHugger Member (Idle past 5382 days) Posts: 108 From: Eliz. TN USA Joined: |
*when I speak of changing the speed of light, I'm implying a changing alpha. What exactly do you mean by changing the alpha, the energy? I am speaking of relative velocity. The speed of light has been slowed considerably in laboratory experiments and its different in a vacuum than in say earths atmosphere. Additionally were doing a 'thought experiment', and so generally speaking the universe expanded faster than light with the photons (particles or waves?) inside, so I will stand by my statement as it was written in layman terms and as a thought experiment. But thanks for your reply. I do have a off topic question if your a qualified astronomer cosmologist etc. Does the big bang math or empirical experiments say that this is the only universe spawned, or is it possible that meta verses to sprang from the BB? : {> Edited by RevCrossHugger, : No reason given. Edited by RevCrossHugger, : No reason given. Edited by RevCrossHugger, : No reason given.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.5 |
quote: Actually you claimed that c - which is the speed of light in a vacuum - wasn't constant. Please try and get your terminology right.
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cavediver Member (Idle past 3674 days) Posts: 4129 From: UK Joined: |
What exactly do you mean by changing the alpha, the energy? No - it's complex and I just put that in for any other scientists who happen to read it.
I am speaking of relative velocity. It doesn't matter
The speed of light has been slowed considerably in laboratory experiments No, it hasn't, although I admit it is often reported in this way. The speed of light is always the same. When it appears slow in air, water, glass, etc, all that is happening is that photons are being abosrbed and re-emitted by the constituents of the medium through which the light is passing. This absorption and re-emission takes time, and makes it appear that light is slowed. But the photons travel from emission event to absorption event at the normal speed of light. In 'delayed' light experiments, the same thing is happening, with just an extended period between absorption and re-emission. In 'faster-than-light' experiments, it is the shape of a light pulse that appears to move faster than light, not the individual photons. They all still travel at the speed of light.
Additionally were doing a 'thought experiment' Thought experiments and laymans' terms are fine but they are not an excuse to just make up shit...
Does the big bang math or empirical experiments say that this is the only universe spawned, or is it possible that meta verses to sprang from the BB? Many of us believe, and certain ideas/theories strongly suggest, that there are not only multiple 'universes' but multiple types of multiple universes. Edited by cavediver, : No reason given.
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onifre Member (Idle past 2981 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
Hi Rev,
What exactly do you mean by changing the alpha, the energy? As cavediver said, it's complicated. However here's a link that explains what alpha is and what *affects* it has on the speed of light.
Alpha constantquote: I don't fully grasp it that well myself either, so any questions you have should be directed to cavediver, or someone else with more knowledge of this than I do. But I hope it helped. - Oni
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RevCrossHugger Member (Idle past 5382 days) Posts: 108 From: Eliz. TN USA Joined: |
Paul writes: Actually you claimed that c - which is the speed of light in a vacuum - wasn't constant. Please try and get your terminology right. I may of used c but you know exactly what I meant, so deal with it please! You know this kind of BS gets old fast. In some experiments light has been slowed. Nevertheless, try to get into the spirit of debate instead of trying to muck things up. If I were writing a scientific paper I would have been more precise, it wasn’t I was responding to a member and considering a thought experiment. Nevertheless,thanks for your reply even if it is a bit hostile. ; {> * In a Bose-Einstein condensate, the speed of light has been made to go as slow as 17 meters/second. Edited by RevCrossHugger, : No reason given.
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RevCrossHugger Member (Idle past 5382 days) Posts: 108 From: Eliz. TN USA Joined: |
cave... writes: Thought experiments and laymans' terms are fine but they are not an excuse to just make up shit... Why not? That's precisely what Gedanken experiment are for especially if being used to visualize an experiment or work through one! That was what I suggested. I wasn't making it up just for fun.
No, it hasn't, although I admit it is often reported in this way.The speed of light is always the same Well I would disagree I am correct for all practical purposes.
When it appears slow in air, water, glass, etc, all that is happening is that photons are being abosrbed and re-emitted by the constituents of the medium through which the light is passing. This absorption and re-emission takes time, and makes it appear that light is slowed. But the photons travel from emission event to absorption event at the normal speed of light. In 'delayed' light experiments, the same thing is happening, with just an extended period between absorption and re-emission. That's kind of like saying time dilation isn't real time travel. As I said in the reply above "In a Bose-Einstein condensate, the speed of light has been made to go as slow as 17 meters/second". When it takes a second for light to go 17 meters call it what you will result is the same, so I stand by my statement, and thanks for your reply... ; }> Edited by RevCrossHugger, : No reason given. Edited by RevCrossHugger, : No reason given.
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RevCrossHugger Member (Idle past 5382 days) Posts: 108 From: Eliz. TN USA Joined: |
cavediver writes: you quote Barrow, so have a look at his own work on the possible variation of alpha* over the course of the Universe. *when I speak of changing the speed of light, I'm implying a changing alpha. Hmmm....well....never mind... ; {> ps no one (qualified to answer)* has an answer about the standard big bang model and many universes? * The reason I am asking for a PhD or someone qualified to answer the question is that I am in a bit of a argument with a PhD and the answer to big bang question would either win it for me or crush me out of existence like stepping across the event horizon of a non rotating black hole.... Edited by RevCrossHugger, : No reason given.
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RevCrossHugger Member (Idle past 5382 days) Posts: 108 From: Eliz. TN USA Joined: |
Thanks for your reply onifre.
; {>
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Perdition Member (Idle past 3268 days) Posts: 1593 From: Wisconsin Joined: |
The speed of light through different media is different. The speed of light through air is different from the speed of light through glass which is different from the speed of light through water. This is why it looks like your straw is broken in half. The constant c refers purely to the speed of light through a vacuum, so despite us being able to adjust the medium through which light is moving such that we get different speeds has no bearing on c, so your argument is still wrong. The constant c is actually a constant, especially as it pertains to starlight.
You know this kind of BS gets old fast. Many people on here try to make sure people understand what they're talking about. Your comment made us wonder if you understood what c is, so they, quite helpfully, let you know where you're wrong. People correct misinformation regardless of whether it comes from a theologically inclined person, from an athiest, or even from a Phd. Someone pointed out where you were wrong, if you think that's BS, maybe you need to stop and consider why you're here. This is a debate forum, so no matter what you say, there is probably going to be someone who disagrees with you.
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onifre Member (Idle past 2981 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
Hi Rev,
The speed of light has been slowed considerably in laboratory experiments and its different in a vacuum than in say earths atmosphere. The speed of light or (c) is constant. It does not change in a vacuum. What you are talking about, like with the Bose-Einstein theory - (which you got incorrect. Einstein and Bose did not slow down the speed of light, they proposed the thoery.) - is a medium set up to slow it down. As with air, or our atmosphere. The one propose by the Einstein-Bose condensate is a Super-atomic cloud/medium. Here's an article from Harvard on the experiment itself. Physicist slow down spped of light quote: Hope this helped, - Oni Edited by onifre, : No reason given. Edited by onifre, : No reason given.
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onifre Member (Idle past 2981 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
Does the big bang math or empirical experiments say that this is the only universe spawned, or is it possible that meta verses to sprang from the BB? The Big Bang model, the current model for the expansion of the universe, is only for our universe. Multi-verse hypothesis/theories are not covered in the Big Bang mdel. - Oni
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lyx2no Member (Idle past 4747 days) Posts: 1277 From: A vast, undifferentiated plane. Joined: |
When it takes a second for light to go 17 meters call it what you will result is the same The instantaneous velocity of a photon is either c or zero. When the percentage of time of travel for the photon being zero is 99.99999433% during an interval the mean velocity is 17 m/s. it's not at all the same. Do you think you'd get off on a speeding ticket for doing 120 mph by telling the judge that you'd only been driving for 32 minutes and sat waiting for the ticket for 28 minutes for an average speed of 65 mph? Edited by lyx2no, : Opps! Hit the wrong button again. No edit. Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them. Thomas Jefferson
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cavediver Member (Idle past 3674 days) Posts: 4129 From: UK Joined: |
* The reason I am asking for a PhD or someone qualified... Rest assured, I have taught enough undergrads, grads, and PhDs big bang comsology, relativity, string theory, etc. I think I'm just about qualified for you So quit with your shit - you really have no clue about any of this, evidenced by your idiocy regarding the speed of light. If you are not interested in learning, then everyone here will just give you the respect you deserve...
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lyx2no Member (Idle past 4747 days) Posts: 1277 From: A vast, undifferentiated plane. Joined: |
A few questions. In my post #57 I say that a photon has a velocity of either c or zero.
Thank you. Edited by lyx2no, : Last question. Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them. Thomas Jefferson
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Taz Member (Idle past 3322 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: |
cavediver writes:
That popping noise you heard was my head exploding.
Many of us believe, and certain ideas/theories strongly suggest, that there are not only multiple 'universes' but multiple types of multiple universes.
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