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Author | Topic: The bigotry of atheists | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
DevilsAdvocate Member (Idle past 3132 days) Posts: 1548 Joined: |
LOL this is funny sofar. I have to agree with Catholic Scientist. bigotry is a paradoxical term. in order to call some one else a bigot you have to be bigotted toward them. and then we are all bigots in that regard, so what is the point of the term if it is all encopmassing to begin with? Read the posts before you chime in Artemis. Catholic Scientist called me a bigot because I pointed out that I thought it was stupid that people focus so much time, money and effort (including tax payer money) on inane phenomena such as the image of the virgin mary on a piece of concrete of an underpass. I was just making the point that if I am a bigot than he is as well for "not respecting my beliefs" (according to CS). The term "bigot" is thrown around so much here, that it really no longer has any meaning. For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. Dr. Carl Sagan
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
I'd bet that most bigots do feel that their bigotry is justified.
LOL, So that means you are bigoted about me being supposedly a bigot? Do you see the slippery slope here?
Yeah, its a bullshit term.
Yeah, its a bullshit term. So what is your definition of a bigot?
Someone who disagrees with a liberal.
Did you consider that intolerance includes a refusal to simply respect? You are not respecting my "bigoted" beliefs, so that makes you a bigot as well. I don't have a problem being a bigot. I disrespect a lot of people.
And how do you define "respecting someones beliefs"? Not regarding or treating them with contempt or rudeness.
Without a standard for idiocy, you're no better than the racial and ethnic bigots. My standard of idiocy is that if your supernatural beliefs interfere with the rights and freedoms of others, than you are in the wrong.
Your own personal/subjective standard is no standard at all. Stopping to look at a stain on the wall is not interfering with anyone else's rights. That "traffic control" has to be brought in is a result of the over-crowding. The over-crowding shouldn't be specifically allowed in this or any other case.
But you've refused to respect them, bigot. And you refuse to respect me, bigot. See where this gets us?
Yeah, its a bullshit term.
Just!? Riiight... That's why your OP just said: "Look at this. It is a waste of time, money and effort that could be spent to better use elsewhere." ...and nothing more So you think this is a good expenditure of our taxpayer money? To protect people while worshiping a piece of concrete? To spend money and time investigate this rubbish on the news? That is a good expenditure of time, money and energy? Really !?! I could find a hundred better ways of expending this time, money and effort.
Non-sequitur.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Catholic Scientist called me a bigot because I pointed out that I thought it was stupid that people focus so much time, money and effort (including tax payer money) on inane phenomena such as the image of the virgin mary on a piece of concrete of an underpass. No, I quote: quote: I only called you a bigot one time in Message 13 and that was for your refusal to respect them. ABE: And I was going to leave that one time out so I could claim that I never actually did call you a bigot (forseeing that you would claim that I did). But, I left it in because I thought it was funnier. Oh well, it blew up in my face. Edited by Catholic Scientist, : see ABE:
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Brian Member (Idle past 4990 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
My standard of idiocy is that if your supernatural beliefs interfere with the rights and freedoms of others, than you are in the wrong. The Catholic Church have been in the wrong many times then haven't they?
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: |
Artemis Entreri writes:
quote: Ah, yes. The "refusing to accept bigotry is bigotry" response. Usually spoken by a bigot when they realize that they cannot justify why they wish to deny to others that which they demand for themselves. Is this thread about to be derailed? Rrhain Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.
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DevilsAdvocate Member (Idle past 3132 days) Posts: 1548 Joined: |
I stand by my statements. If you want to call me a bigot fine.
Like I said, what you do in the privacy of your own home, I could care less about. But if you divert public money away from really important things like fighting crime, science, medical research, etc than YES I am going to wave the BULLSHIT FLAG! BTW, do you respect the beliefs of a pedophile? No? I guess you are a bigot then? (I am being sarcastic to prove a point) Do you respect the beliefs of the Heaven's Gate followers who committed mass suicide or Jim Jones who forced the suicide of all his followers? How about Mormon fundamentals who believe in polygamy, do you respect there beliefs? Why should we respect all religious beliefs? Do you respect all political beliefs? I would venture not. What makes religion so special to deserve our respect? BTW, tolerance and respect are two different things. I tolerate religious belief as guaranteed by the 1st Amendment (as long as they do not encroach on the freedoms and rights of others). But there is nothing that says I have to respect these beliefs. If a political or any belief is just plain stupid and detrimental to society, we would be foolish to credit this belief with respect wouldn't we? Why is religious belief any different? BTW, you seem to not respect my opinion but in all seriousness I don't consider you a bigot, just in error. Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : Correct spelling For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. Dr. Carl Sagan
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Ah, yes. The "refusing to accept bigotry is bigotry" response. Ah, yes. The "refusing to accept bigotry isn't bigotry" response. From Message 5 quote: .
Usually spoken by a bigot when they realize that they cannot justify why they wish to deny to others that which they demand for themselves. Who's talking about denying anyone anything? Oh, I forgot. You have a your own unique definition of 'bigotry'.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Tolerance and respect are not the same thing I stand by my statements. If you want to call me a bigot fine. Honestly, I don't use the term (unless I'm trying to be funny). Like I said, its a bullshit term.
BTW, do you respect the beliefs of a pedophile? No? I guess you are a bigot then? (I am being sarcastic to prove a point) Do you respect the beliefs of the Heaven's Gate followers who committed mass suicide or Jim Jones who forced the suicide of all his followers? How about Mormon fundamentals who believe in polygamy, do you respect there beliefs? I refuse to respect those beliefs so, by definition, I am bigoted towards them.
Why should we respect all religious beliefs? Do you respect all political beliefs? I would venture not. What makes religion so special to deserve our respect? I don't have a problem being a bigot.
BTW, tolerance and respect are two different things. I tolerate religious belief as guaranteed by the 1st Amendment (as long as they do not encroach on the freedoms and rights of others). But there is nothing that says I have to respect these beliefs. Tolerance includes respect...
If a political or any belief is just plain stupid and detrimental to society, we would be foolish to credit this belief with respect wouldn't we? Its hypocritical to use a subjective determination to discredit another subjective determination's deserving of respect. By your own criteria, I should not credit the above belief with respect if I think it is just plain stupid and detrimental to society. and as a parallel topic: Most of the religious right do think that this whole "tolerance" movement (I hope you know what I'm referring too) is a detriment to society. By your criteria, they should not be respecting it. The "tolerance movement" (an admittedly bad name but I don't know what to call it at the moment) fights this refusal to accept tolerance while claiming that the refusal to accept intolerance is not intolerance. But both sides can arrive at their position by your criteria above. One side itself doesn't determine what is and is not allowed to be tolerated. Both sides are trying to though. Shit, I'm outta time.....
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NosyNed Member Posts: 9004 From: Canada Joined: |
On this I have to disagree strongly.
In fact, if I respect someone or their beliefs then tolerance doesn't enter into it or, perhaps, it is automatic. Of course I can tolerate something I respect. Tolerance and a lack of bigotry only enters into the issue when I do [i]not/i respect the person or belief.
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: |
Catholic Scientist responds to me:
quote: Indeed, but that just proves the entire point: When shown you have no way to justify your bigotry, you claim that the other person, refusing to accept your bigotry, is also a bigot. This ignores the fact that bigotry is not mere dislike. It involves the attitude that the object of dislike shouldn't be allowed by others even though you, yourself, are engaging in related activity. It is a double-standard based upon the attitude of, "I don't like that."
quote: You were. Or have you forgotten your own words? Message 18 Catholic Scientist writes: I only called you a bigot one time in Message 13 and that was for your refusal to respect them. And what was DevilsAdvocate doing? According to you, not granting respect. Well, that's denying to others that which he demands for himself. Ergo, bigotry.
quote: Nobody seemed to have a problem with it except for you and the others who were advocating the denial of rights to others which you were demanding for yourselves. It was demanded that a definition of bigotry be given, that's the one I gave, and you only whined against it because it caught you. Now, before the thread derails regarding the subject that led to this definition, let's go with the example DevilsAdvocate gave: Those that have found an image on a wall that they deem significant. He's upset of the use of civic funds to manage the people. Oh? Why? Our society indicates that people have a right to assembly. Why is there a double-standard regarding the reason for the gathering? Why should we allow a group to, say, protest what they feel are the failings of their elected officials but not to admire an image? Why deny to others that which you demand for yourself? Now, I'll agree that "bigot" gets thrown around a bit too freely. And its often used in the same way that "fascist" is tossed about: It's a way to derail and deflect. By tossing out such an emotionally laden word, the conversation is derailed to discussing the justification of the claim, not the original topic. But in this case, we are discussing actual bigotry, therefore we have to have some concept. And to use your insistence that refusal to accept intolerance is also intolerance, then there is no way to make a distinction between bigotry and non-bigotry. And if you really feel that way, perhaps you should bow out because we'll be discussing a distinction you seem to think doesn't exist. Rrhain Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.
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DevilsAdvocate Member (Idle past 3132 days) Posts: 1548 Joined: |
Tolerance includes respect... It can but not necessarily. I can tolerate a certain amount of stupidity from the junior Sailors that work for me (this works in the case of children as well), but I don't respect them when they are being stupid (i.e. being drunk but not necessarily disorderly). Now if they become disorderly when they get drunk than I become intolerant and lay down the law. In either cases I do not respect there actions but in one case I tolerate there behavior and the other I do not tolerate this behavior. Now if they do something good and admirable, I both tolerate and respect there behavior. Does this make sense? In the case of the religious people worshiping the image of the Virgin Mary on the concrete wall on the underpass, I tolerate there behavior but in no way do I have to respect it. They can worship all they want. I think the behavior is stupid but they have the right to worship anything they want as long as it does not interfere with anyone else's rights and freedoms. However, I do not tolerate or condone using tax payer/public money in any way to support this activity/behavior either through police protection or otherwise. For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. Dr. Carl Sagan
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Granny Magda Member Posts: 2462 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.1 |
I seem to be getting a case of deja vu...
Devils' Advocate writes: If you want to call me a bigot fine. Catholic Scientist writes: Honestly, I don't use the term (unless I'm trying to be funny). Like I said, its a bullshit term. *coughs*
Catholic Scientist, addressing Granny Magda, writes: I never said that, bigot. Catholic Scientist, addressing Granny Magda, writes: Your a bigot because you'd rather vilify your opponent than understand them. You'd rather put words in their mouth than listen to what they are saying. Sources here and here. Yup, you certainly are a funny guy. Which bit of that is the joke? Mutate and Survive "The Bible is like a person, and if you torture it long enough, you can get it to say almost anything you'd like it to say." -- Rev. Dr. Francis H. Wade
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monkey boy Junior Member (Idle past 5480 days) Posts: 24 Joined: |
This may not be completely on subject,but, no one has said anything about how the power of a bigot affects things. For instance I am an atheist there are, however very few of us so on a societal level any intolerence of ours is easily negated. There are an awful lot of self proclaimes christians. Their numbers make any intolerence they might practice, extremely dangerous to the target of same. I contend, therefore, that any intolerence of mine is a lesser issue then that practiced by a numerous, powerful group.
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Huntard Member (Idle past 2326 days) Posts: 2870 From: Limburg, The Netherlands Joined: |
Hello Monkey Boy, welcome to EvC.
There are very few Atheists? Perhaps where you come from, but over here in Europe, there are quite many. So any intolerance (if any exists) won't be easily negated. And the reverse goes for Christians here, although they do have a disproportionate influence, if you ask me. (If only because our largest political party are the Christian Democrats). Most atheists also vote for this party, because it's in the political middle, and so appeals to many people from all walks of life. I hunt for the truth
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Artemis Entreri  Suspended Member (Idle past 4259 days) Posts: 1194 From: Northern Virginia Joined: |
DevilsAdvocate writes: Read the posts before you chime in Artemis.
I did. Thanks for explaining it but i can read.
A Bigot writes: I stand by my statements. If you want to call me a bigot fine. sweet! you are a bigot.
Catholic Bigot writes:
I don't have a problem being a bigot.
me either, bigot.
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