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Author Topic:   Independent Historical Corroboration for Biblical Events
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3945
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 2 of 212 (4764)
02-16-2002 7:21 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Peter
02-11-2002 10:27 AM


Have been looking for info on this topic, with little success.
I do have a few scraps of info from a book, but doesn't seem to be worth the typing effort - maybe later.
What I did track down:
A Google search for "evidence of biblical events":
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=evidence+of+biblical+events&btnG=Google+Search
One site found in above results:
Biblical Archaeology
http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/~kmeyers/archaeol/bib_arch.html
In turn, the above led to this:
Archaeology and the Bible -
http://www.christiananswers.net/archaeology/home.html
Will try to pursue further.
Moose
------------------
BS degree, geology, '83
Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Old Earth evolution - Yes
Godly creation - Maybe

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Peter, posted 02-11-2002 10:27 AM Peter has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Minnemooseus, posted 02-16-2002 8:17 PM Minnemooseus has not replied

  
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3945
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 3 of 212 (4779)
02-16-2002 8:17 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Minnemooseus
02-16-2002 7:21 PM


From "Evolution Of The Earth", 2nd Edition, Robert H. Dott, Jr. & Roger L. Batten, 1976, McGraw-Hill
(I believe this book is currently in it's 6th edition; word has it that there are NOT substantial difference between the editions).
From page 1 and 2:
quote:
A volcanic event of still greater historical interest occurred in the eastern Mediterranean region about 1500 B.C., but its story has only recently been worked out. Santorin, or Thera, is a crescent-shaped island between Greece and Crete. It is a volcanic caldera, that is, a ring enclosing a submerged crater 400 meters deep -- a puny remnant of a once lofty mountain. (Crater Lake in Oregon is also a caldera, but it stands well above sea level.) Many small eruptions have occurred at Thera within historic times, but old lava flows and thick volcanic ash deposits tell of a more violent earlier history. Recent sampling by oceanographers of deep-sea sidiments in the eastern Mediterranean has revealed widespread buried ash layers that become thicker toward Thera, their obvious source. Carbon-14 isotope dating and archaeological remains indicate that the last very great eruptions occurred between 1450 and 1520 B.C. The material erupted was three or four times greater that from Krakatoa 3,400 years later.
Thera's eruptions are of special interest not only for their geologic magnitude but even more so because of their historical implications. The earliest European civilization -- called Minoan -- began on Crete only 125 kilometers (75 miles) south of Thera, and a well-preserved Minoan settlement has recently been excavated on Thera itself. But the Cretan civilzation collapsed suddenly between 1400 and 1500 B.C. for reasons that have eluded archaeologists for generations.
Greek archaeologist Spyridon Marinatos postulated way back in 1934 that and eruption of Thera may have ended the Minoan culture, and his hunch has recently been confirmed beyond reasonable doubt. Thera's cataclysmic eruptions would have generated tsunamis, waves perhaps as much as 100 meters high, which could reach norther Crete without warning in a mere 20 minutes. As around Krakatoa, such waves would do severe damage, and the Minoan capital of Knossos is known to have been virtually leveled at about this time. Other palaces, as well as temples, roads, and viaducts on the island, also were destroyed. Prevailing winds blew great volumes of ash southeastward. Most of this ended up on the bottom of the Mediterranean, but a lot must have fallen on eastern Crete, where it would have raised havoc with cultivated fields. Poisonous gases also may gave blown as far as Crete.
We have at last a logical explanation for the unusually sudden disappearance of a great culture, but that is not the whole story. Egyptian writings record the cessation of imports of Cretan cedar and of oil needed for preparing mummies duting the Eighteenth Dynasty of Egypt, which lo and behold would place it about 1500 B.C.! Those same writings tell of a period of floods and darkness when the "sun appeared in the sky like the moon." Could Thera, then, have caused the famous days of darkness of the Old Testament? And could the ebb of its tsunamis possibly explain the parting of the waters in the "Sea of Reeds" in northeastern Egypt to allow the Jewish Exodus? Could Thera also have inspired stories of the sinking of mythical Atlantis? Some scholars think so.
Moose
------------------
BS degree, geology, '83
Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Old Earth evolution - Yes
Godly creation - Maybe

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Minnemooseus, posted 02-16-2002 7:21 PM Minnemooseus has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Peter, posted 02-18-2002 7:34 AM Minnemooseus has not replied

  
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3945
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 6 of 212 (6528)
03-11-2002 3:52 AM


The following is message 69 of the "QUESTIONS" topic, as posted by AARD. Seems to me that this belongs in this topic:
quote:
KP- well you guys dont think the bible is credible and i dont know too many other things that are an accurate history of Jesus's time.
We don't think the bible is credible as a source of scientific knowledge. But I think even most atheists would agree that many of the moral teachings have validity.
Other than a few place names, I know of nothing in the bible that can be verified with scientific evidence. There is no evidence of Adam and Eve/garden of Eden. There is no evidence of the flood. There is no evidence of the Exodus. There is no evidence for the great age of the Patriarchs. There is no evidence for the great kingdoms of David and Solomon. Etc, Etc, Etc. Nor do we have any evidence for the myriad other religious doctrines from around the world.
This is an essay to get to started. Its not too long and will give you a place to start your own search. http://www.bidstrup.com/bible.htm
This one is another short essay you might find interesting: http://www.library.cornell.edu/colldev/mideast/jerques.htm
If you want a little more detail, try this site: http://www.bibleorigins.net/archaeologydatestexts.html
None of this should cause you any grief as far as your religious inclinations go. But it should make you reflect upon YOUR particular interpretation of the bible. You are setting yourself up for failure by following the false dichotomy espoused by YEC. It is not an either/or proposition.
On the other hand, we have very detailed evidence from other societies, that lived through the time of the flood. We have very detailed geologic evidence that a world wide flood never occurred. We have a very detailed sorting of the fossil record within the geology. We have observed evolution in action, about 100 unique speciation events in just the last 20 years. Etc, Etc, Etc. Now think about it, in the 150 years of evidence gathering, emergence of new sciences, and increases in our ability to measure, observe, and experiment, all this new knowledge has leant additional strength in the ToE. Not a single piece of evidence has been discovered that would cause the falsification of the theory (although adjustments have been made, good science).
Therefore, the reasonable person (the scientist in this case), must conclude on the basis of current evidence, that the bible is not a reliable source of scientific evidence.
Moose
------------------
BS degree, geology, '83
Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Old Earth evolution - Yes
Godly creation - Maybe

  
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3945
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 21 of 212 (7319)
03-19-2002 3:17 PM


Just got done listening to this, on NPR radio.
http://www.npr.org/programs/totn/
quote:
Tuesday, March 19, 2002
Two of the most important holidays to Jews and Christians -- Passover and Easter -- are right around the corner. Tuesday on Talk of the Nation host Neal Conan takes a closer look at the latest advances in biblical archaeology. When it comes to faith, does it matter what is fact and what is fiction?
This topic was the first hour of the program. They say the audio will be available online, after 6:00 pm eastern time. The audio link should be available at the above link.
Moose
------------------
BS degree, geology, '83
Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Old Earth evolution - Yes
Godly creation - Maybe

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by Minnemooseus, posted 03-20-2002 12:25 AM Minnemooseus has not replied

  
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3945
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 22 of 212 (7374)
03-20-2002 12:25 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by Minnemooseus
03-19-2002 3:17 PM


Further info on the previously mentioned "Talk Of The Nation" audio feed (quoting from http://search.npr.org/cf/cmn/cmnpd01fm.cfm?PrgDate=03/19/2002&PrgID=5 ):
quote:
Guests:
Bruce Feiler
*Author, Walking the Bible: A Journey By Land Through the Five Books of Moses (Harper Perennial, 2002)
Rabbi Harold Kushner
*Co-editor, Etz Hayim, the New Torah
*Author of several books including Living a Life That Matters: Resolving the Conflict Between Conscience and Success (Knopf, 2001)
Jonathan Reed
*Archeologist
*Professor of Religion and Biblical Archeology, University of La Verne, La Verne, California
*Co-author, Excavating Jesus: Beneath the Stones; Behind the Texts (Harper San Francisco, 2001) and Archaeology and the Galilean Jesus: A Re-Examination of the Evidence (Trinity Press, 2000)
The audio is available at:
http://www.npr.org/ramfiles/totn/20020319.totn.01.ram
The radio version of this went 1 hour.
I don't know how long the above linked file will remain available.
Moose
Edited to fix URL
------------------
BS degree, geology, '83
Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Old Earth evolution - Yes
Godly creation - Maybe
[This message has been edited by minnemooseus, 03-20-2002]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Minnemooseus, posted 03-19-2002 3:17 PM Minnemooseus has not replied

  
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3945
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 54 of 212 (15920)
08-22-2002 11:08 AM
Reply to: Message 53 by Tranquility Base
08-22-2002 10:25 AM


quote:
Why should Christians doubt the flood?
Because the record of God's work, the physical Earth, says it never happened.
In the name of a literal reading of Genesis, you are going through all kinds of contortions to avoid a literal reading of the Earth's geologic history. Which of these two sources of information has been preserved, safe from the editing processes of humanity?
Moose
------------------
BS degree, geology, '83
Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Old Earth evolution - Yes
Godly creation - Maybe

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by Tranquility Base, posted 08-22-2002 10:25 AM Tranquility Base has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by Tranquility Base, posted 08-22-2002 9:28 PM Minnemooseus has replied

  
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3945
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 58 of 212 (15980)
08-23-2002 1:43 AM
Reply to: Message 56 by Tranquility Base
08-22-2002 9:28 PM


quote:
And the fact that you wont even acknolweldge that we say that the marine innundations world wide are the flood proves that you are not participating in helpful discussion. You know our POV.
The vast difference between the mainstream geology readings and interpretations of the records of marine innundations and the "flood geology" readings and interpretations of same, are the subject another forum, so I won't go into it here (or will I?).
What we are looking at here, is the conflict between two different records of God's creation process. One is the brief discourse in Genesis, whose present form bears a very uncertain relationship to whatever the original text was, not to mention what the accuracy of the original text was.
The other record of God's creation process is the results of the creation process - the Earth itself. Much of the rock "text" still exists in a form that can be "read" by anyone knowledgeable in the syntax of the geology.
Yet, when there is perceived to be a conflict between a limited amount of human processed printed word and the definitly the work of God geology, the YEC persists is doggedly believing the printed text.
The YEC believes absolutely in the content of Genesis, and refuses to believe what the rocks say. To the YEC, the words are stronger than an honest appraisal of the results of the creation.
Moose
------------------
BS degree, geology, '83
Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Old Earth evolution - Yes
Godly creation - Maybe

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by Tranquility Base, posted 08-22-2002 9:28 PM Tranquility Base has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by Tranquility Base, posted 08-23-2002 2:05 AM Minnemooseus has not replied

  
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