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Author Topic:   Why does God need to be worshipped?
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 34 of 64 (467596)
05-22-2008 6:12 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by Straggler
05-22-2008 3:04 AM


Re: Notions
Straggler writes:
Why would he want this?
Since I don't know what the word worship means in this thread I don't know how to begin. But I must give it a go.
I have two sons I brought into the world some 45+ years ago.
When my oldest was born I was making $1.10 per hr. working 60 hours a week. Things did get better. I worked long and hard to provide for my boys, and tried to give them things I did not have growing up.
Because of that I want their respect, and Love. When I do things for them today I want them to be thankful not think of it as an entitlement.
Does God need my worship or adoration? NO
I need food and water to live. Anything else is my want's.
Let me try to explain God's position.
God does not need anything I you or anybody else has.
In Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 2:4 - Genesis 4:26 God created the universe, man, animals, birds and all plant life. This He did all in one day.
Everything was perfect even the man. God made a perfect place for man to reside and provided everything his heart could desire. But God gave man one rule to live by. He was forbidden to eat the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
Satan was the overseer of the planet earth and I don't know how much more. He convinced the woman to eat the fruit and the man willfully chose to eat the fruit. The man was not deceived.
That man and all his descendants were kicked out of God's perfect place into the world of Satan.
This condemned mankind to the same fate as Satan.
But God wanted to give His created mankind another chance so He devised a way man could get a full free pardon and be able to return to that perfect place.
Man can accept that pardon or reject it.
The Bible is written to the man that accepts the pardon offered by God.
And yes it makes demands on the person that accepts the pardon. That person is no longer a citizen of Satan's world, and they are supposed to show it by the life that they live.
So God does not need your worship or praise. He does not even need you to believe He exists. It makes no difference to God what you do that is your choice and He is satisfied with your choice.
But God desires for your sake that you do believe in Him and receive the pardon He has offered to you.
I notice everybody here seems to want to blame God for everything that happens on the earth. That is not the case. Satan is in charge of the earth therefore it is his responsibility not God's.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Straggler, posted 05-22-2008 3:04 AM Straggler has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by Perdition, posted 05-22-2008 11:40 PM ICANT has replied
 Message 36 by Blue Jay, posted 05-22-2008 11:56 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 37 of 64 (467644)
05-23-2008 12:49 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by Perdition
05-22-2008 11:40 PM


Re: Notions
Perdition writes:
But God created Satan, with full knowledge of what Satan would do. Doesn't God, then, share at least some of the responsibility?
God made Satan capable of what he does yes.
But the first man opened the box and let Satan out. Had man never eaten the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil Satan would have been without a job.
Don't blame God for man's choice even though He made man capable of making the wrong choice.
Just as man can choose to believe in God today or not believe in God.
God does not need man or anything man has. Man needs God and what God can provide for him.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Perdition, posted 05-22-2008 11:40 PM Perdition has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 38 of 64 (467645)
05-23-2008 1:04 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by Blue Jay
05-22-2008 11:56 PM


Re: Notions
Bluejay writes:
He wasn't very satisfied with Achan's choice (Joshua 7) after Jericho,
Sure God was satisfied He just made sure he would not make that choice again.
The God of the OT was a God of Law. All you have to do is read it. God made a lot of laws and if they were broken man had to pay.
I think God was trying to point out to mankind that man could not keep His laws. So that when grace was offered man could accept it. But there are many still trying to keep laws trying to please God.
You mentioned the nations God gave over to Israel and told them to destroy them. Those were ungodly people that had followed their own ways.
Guess what there are a lot of people and nations that have done that today. Time is coming when God will say enough is enough. If you are here then you will look on the things in the OT as a sunday school picnic.
As I said God does not need us.
God does not need our worship.
God does want obedience out of those who are born again.
Jesus said: "My sheep hear my voice and I know them and they Follow Me." Not following is not an option.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by Blue Jay, posted 05-22-2008 11:56 PM Blue Jay has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by Blue Jay, posted 05-23-2008 1:21 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 44 of 64 (467704)
05-23-2008 1:11 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by Blue Jay
05-23-2008 1:21 AM


Re: Notions
Bluejay writes:
Wasn't it Satan that got the man to "open the box" in the first place? How did he do that if he wasn't already "out of the box" beforehand?
No. Satan deceived the woman. The woman gave the fruit to the man and he chose to eat. He did not have to eat it and he was not deceived into eating it. All I can figure is he knew God said when you eat the fruit you will die and the woman was going to die and leave him alone with the animals. He did not want that so he chose to eat and die with her.
Had man not willfully disobeyed God Satan would still be in the box. But that man would be the only human being to walk and talk with God.
Bluejay writes:
That's ridiculous: He not only made sure Achan wouldn't do it again, He decided to take it out on all of Israel. In other words, He went out of His way to make His point clear, and had lots of people killed for it. This is that exact opposite of allowing personal choice.
Achan disobeyed God and took spoil when ordered not to.
Joshua sent people into battle without consulting God and lost a lot of men.
Achan was then asked what he had done. So somebody had to know what had taken place but didn't rat him out until after the disaster.
Since Achan was the head of the house and all those of his knew of his deeds they became partakers of his deeds and all were taken outside the camp and killed.
It was not because they did not worship God, but because they disobeyed God.
God did not need anyone setting a bad example by disobeying an order.
Bluejay writes:
So, you believe that God has been changing over time?
No God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow.
He did deal with people different in the OT than He does today.
He also dealt with Israel in a different way than any other people because they were a chosen people through whom Jesus would come.
Bluejay writes:
Are you suggesting that God just used the people of the OT as an example for us? Guinea pigs? They didn't get second chances, as God allows us nowadays. Was salvation ever on the table for them, in the first place? If so, why were the standards different before Christ came?
I think He uses people today as examples. Ananias and Sapphira come to mind, they dropped dead because they lied to the Holy Spirit. They made a deal then reneged on following through.
Abraham believe God and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Enoch walked with God and God took him.
Elijah walked with God and was carried into heaven in a chariot.
Many believed God and obeyed Him and yes they went to heaven.
Many today think they can pray a prayer and make a profession of faith and that is being born again. They have been sold a bill of good by the prince and power of this earth.
Jesus said: "My sheep hear my voice and I know them and they FOLLOW ME."
The only option we have today is to believe God is and accept Him or reject Him.
If you accept Him you will follow Him. If someone claims to be a Christian and is not trying to follow Jesus, they are none of His.
It is not a matter of worship but of obedience.
God requires obedience from His children (those who are born again) if that is called worship then I guess that is what it is.
Everybody else can do as they choose.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by Blue Jay, posted 05-23-2008 1:21 AM Blue Jay has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 45 of 64 (467706)
05-23-2008 1:18 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by Perdition
05-23-2008 9:34 AM


Re: Experience?
Perdition writes:
But God already knows whether I will "be convinced" or not. He knew before I was born, so if I go to my grave not being convinced, its because God knowingly did not do enough to convince me. It seems like he likes people who are easily convinced of something, and just lets the skeptical of "his creations" fall.
Where do you get the idea from that it is God's obligation to convince you of anything, must less His existence.
If God convinces you then you will not need faith.
But man is saved by faith, through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ when he accepts God's offer of a full free pardon.
You don't like God's plan. Then reject it.
People have a weird idea of what God wants as worship.
God simply wants obedience, That is all He ever wanted.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Perdition, posted 05-23-2008 9:34 AM Perdition has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by Perdition, posted 05-23-2008 1:54 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 48 of 64 (467729)
05-23-2008 3:49 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by Perdition
05-23-2008 1:54 PM


Re: Experience?
Perdition writes:
I don't believe there is a God.
Why is that God's problem?
Don't blame God. Blame your parents and their parents for not teaching you about God and living an example before you that would show you that there is a God.
While you are at it you can also blame Modern Religion. You can include the Churches. But you can't include Iano or myself with them.
Perdition writes:
Then why doesn't he ask for it in a way I will understand or see?
He gave a manual with all the instructions, but nobody reads the manual.
Many say but, the Bible God's manual is not to be believed. etc.
I taught a lesson Wednesday night where I compared verse for verse the King James Version Bible Isaiah chapter 53 with the Dead Sea Scrolls Isaiah 53. They say the same thing just a little different in some places, but the meaning is the same. The Dead Sea Scrolls were not found until 1947. So how do they match? The Dead Sea Scrolls are over 2000 years old.
Why does God need for you to believe in Him? He doesn't but He desires it.
Why does God need for you to worship Him? He doesn't but He desires it.
What would be the benefit to God? Nothing.
Many are seeking a sign or for God to convince them He exists. Jesus said there would be no sign. Other than Him being in the tomb 3 days and 3 nights.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Perdition, posted 05-23-2008 1:54 PM Perdition has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by Perdition, posted 05-23-2008 3:57 PM ICANT has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 50 of 64 (467734)
05-23-2008 4:58 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by Grizz
05-23-2008 3:40 PM


Re: Emotional Worship
Grizz writes:
We see these displays, for example, at Christian worship services where participants singe praises and hymns with hands raised and bodies swaying. Someone is overcome with emotion and starts crying then everyone else joins in. I am not poking fun at anyone, I am just pointing out that worship can be a very emotional experience for many people of all faiths and the power of the experience translates to a reinforcement of the validity of the belief system.
Grizz such displays are nothing but emotional displays to show other's one's devotion to God. See how dedicated I am. See how Spiritual I am. Hey look at me I am a shinning example for God. That is what they are screaming.
I can't find in God's Word where He desires such shenanigans as worship. I do find where He desires obedience.
The Church was given a three fold mission by Jesus. People make up the Church.
They were told as you go through the world make disciples. (Believers are to live lives before their friends and neighbors that they can tell they have something they don't. That they may desire it.
When they are disciples, (believers) they are to be added to the Church by baptism.
Then it is the Church's responsibility to teach them the all things that Jesus commanded. These things were conveyed to us through the writers of the New Testament. These people had been taught daily for 3 1/2 years by Jesus. Except Paul who received special teaching.
Let me explain what our worship service is at the Church I pastor.
We meet on Sunday morning at 10 AM and have a 45 minute lesson. This is a prepared lesson that they have material they have studied during the week. They can ask questions and give comments on what is taught.
We have a 15 minute break between lesson and morning service.
We have 3 or 4 songs.
We talk about those on our prayer list. Add new people and Remove one's no longer requiring special prayer.
We talk about those of our membership that need special attention. We have several widows that are quite old. Many times we have work days at their houses.
If God has done something special for someone they can share it.
We take our weekly offering.
I present a 20 to 30 minute message from God's Word.
Sunday evening we meet at 6 PM.
We sing 3 songs.
Reports given if anything new.
I teach a 45 minute lesson from the Bible verse by verse. Book chosen by the membership.
Wednesday we meet at 7 PM.
We sing 4 short songs.
I teach a 30 minute lesson from the Bible. Usually one that has been requested by one of the members. Something they have a question about.
We then talk about problems among the membership that needs attention or prayer. We go over the prayer list.
We then split men in one room and women in another room for prayer. That way if there is special needs they can be talked about. Things that you would not want to talk about in a mixed group of men and women.
We meet at different times and go out on visitation.
We meet to help take care of needs of the membership.
We meet to take care of the Church and property.
These three can take place at any time.
Doing these things is what I call worship because in so doing I am being obedient to God.
Maybe I got it all wrong. But Jesus commanded me to love God above all else. He also commanded me to love my neighbor as myself. Through Paul He commanded me to take care of my brethren and sisters in Christ.
I truly love my neighbor as much as I do myself and that is why I tell everyone I can that Jesus loves them and died for them and if they will trust Him to give them eternal life they can receive a full free pardon from God.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Grizz, posted 05-23-2008 3:40 PM Grizz has not replied

  
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