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Author Topic:   Do Cells know they're part of something bigger?
Peter
Member (Idle past 1510 days)
Posts: 2161
From: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Joined: 02-05-2002


Message 7 of 37 (46063)
07-15-2003 8:05 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by tabularasa
07-12-2003 5:09 PM


quote:
Only, I wonder if on some level a cell has conciousness. Does it understand it's position? Is it possible that it might have inteligence?
No. A cell is a bio-machine 'programmed' from it's inception to
perform a certain function.
I use all of the above terms loosely, rather than literally.
I do not believe that a multi-cellular organism could exist
if each cell had 'intellegence' or 'conciousness'.
Just my opinion, naturally.
quote:
Could you say that the Eco-system might be in and of itself an organism?
Only as a loose analogy ... eco-systems do not reproduce, for
example.
quote:
Why else would all life on earth be writen in the same four letter of DNA?
It's just the way it happened. Reading some grand design into
it after the fact may be comforting, but there is not evidential
basis for doing so.
quote:
It is very human of us to put ourseves at the top of the evolutionary ladder, but what if we were all REALLY just a part of something bigger?
Very human and entirely inappropriate.
What would be the evidence for this?
What 'bigger' thing are we part of? A super-eco-organism?
Perhaps in the future we will all become one with nature????

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by tabularasa, posted 07-12-2003 5:09 PM tabularasa has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by JONATHAN_KERPACUS, posted 07-15-2003 11:55 AM Peter has replied

  
Peter
Member (Idle past 1510 days)
Posts: 2161
From: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Joined: 02-05-2002


Message 10 of 37 (46108)
07-15-2003 12:35 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by JONATHAN_KERPACUS
07-15-2003 11:55 AM


Re: YEA YOU ARE GONNA BE WITH NATURE FOR ETERNITY IF YOU
Do you mind not shouting
quote:
DONT WISE UP......YOU SOUND LIKE YOU ARE A ATHEIST...YOUR CHOICE..
BUT PERSONALLY I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A SIMPLE CHOICE...ITS COST FREE....AND TAKES VIRTUALLY NO ENERGY EXCEPT A BIT OF THOUGHT...
I have put more than 'A BIT' of thought into it over the years,
and yes I am 'A ATHEIST'
quote:
YOU MAY WANT TO "DIE" HOWEVER, PERSONALLY I LIKE LIFE...AND I WILL CHOOSE TO CONTINUE TO EXIST....
TO THINK THAT ALL THINGS ARE ONLY COIENCIDENCES...I.E. GENETIC CODES...IS LUDACRIS......
YEA ALL THESE HAPPENSTANCES......LMAO......PEOPLE WISE UP!!!!!!!
IF YOU COMPARE IT TO I.E. LOTTERIES....THE CHANCES OF ALL THE SCIENTIFIC COIENCIDENCES....ARE LIKE A GOGAPLEX
TO ONE....OR A GOOGAPLEX OF GOOGAPLEXES TO ONE.....OR INFINITE GOGAPLEXES TO ONE....GET THE PICTURE....THE
ODDS OF ALL HAPPENING BY COIDENDENCE IS HAMMERED BY ODDS!!!!!!!!!!!!IT JUST AINT GONNA JUST HAPPEN...
I MADE UP A NEW TERM....MIRACULOUS COIENCIDENCES.....THERE YOU GO...YOU WILL BE HEARNING FROM ME MUCH
MORE....
Not sure what the dying thing has to do with anything...
The probabilities thing is LUDACRIS though. Check through all the
threads here and you'll find all kinds of refutations of that
line of reasoning.
It's only MIRACULOUS COIENCIDENCES if you assume that the
extant set of critters on the planet was intended to be
here from the start ... ToE makes no such assumption.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by JONATHAN_KERPACUS, posted 07-15-2003 11:55 AM JONATHAN_KERPACUS has not replied

  
Peter
Member (Idle past 1510 days)
Posts: 2161
From: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Joined: 02-05-2002


Message 14 of 37 (47672)
07-28-2003 6:45 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by DC85
07-27-2003 11:29 PM


How can the universe be part of something bigger -- that
would just be more universe wouldn't it?
Or did you mean meta-physically?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by DC85, posted 07-27-2003 11:29 PM DC85 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by zephyr, posted 07-28-2003 11:43 AM Peter has replied

  
Peter
Member (Idle past 1510 days)
Posts: 2161
From: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Joined: 02-05-2002


Message 16 of 37 (47729)
07-28-2003 11:46 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by zephyr
07-28-2003 11:43 AM


Maybe that's what all that 'junk' DNA is for

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by zephyr, posted 07-28-2003 11:43 AM zephyr has not replied

  
Peter
Member (Idle past 1510 days)
Posts: 2161
From: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Joined: 02-05-2002


Message 20 of 37 (80855)
01-26-2004 12:00 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by :æ:
01-22-2004 12:12 PM


quote:
Consider this, however: Where is your consciousness located in your body? Commonly persons respond that their consciousness is locked up tightly in their skull, married to their brain. Seems reasonable enough, no? Yet if we were to dissect a human brian, nowhere could one point and say "there's the consciousness," and nowhere could you find the contents of a single thought, idea, or emotion.
Funny I thought it was common for guillotine victims' heads to
remain conscious for a short time after separation, while the
body was a life-less hulk. Suggests consciuosness seated in
the head somewhere. Not entirely sure of my facts there though
I admit.
I do know that when certain types of brain function cease,
then consciousness is no longer evident (i.e. brain death)
while the rest of the body can be kept going indefinitely.
One could remove chunks of body from all over (without killing
the subject) without affecting functions normally associated
with consciousness, but only a few grammes of the ole' grey
matter (from the right spot) can alter emotional response,
linguistic ability, and thought processess in general.
If that doesn't suggest consciousness seated in the brain
I don't know what does.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by :æ:, posted 01-22-2004 12:12 PM :æ: has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by NosyNed, posted 01-27-2004 1:47 AM Peter has replied

  
Peter
Member (Idle past 1510 days)
Posts: 2161
From: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Joined: 02-05-2002


Message 26 of 37 (81040)
01-27-2004 4:43 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by NosyNed
01-27-2004 1:47 AM


Well I did say I wasn't sure of the facts with the guillotine
thing ... but the other comments stand.
The hormonal contribution is just an input to the brain function
though. The levels and types of hormone do't affect consciousness
only expression of consciousness (I don't think that's the same,
but ...)
And as far as removing it .... doesn't a frontal lobotomy
leave someone in a pretty vegitative/unresponsive state?
Yes, consciousness is an emergent property, and yes, outside
'data' can influence 'operating mode' ... but the brain
is a real-time system aimed at dealing with the outside world
so it has to have inputs from it.
Aren't most mode changes initiated by the brain -- transmittedvia the nerves to cause other body parts to act in a way that
e.g. produces more or less of a particular hormone?
I know at least some hormonal responses are local (corpus luteum
generates hormonal changes to signal pregnancy is established
for example), but they are indicative inputs to inform the
brain how to proceed -- not part of the consciousness.

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 Message 22 by NosyNed, posted 01-27-2004 1:47 AM NosyNed has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by crashfrog, posted 01-27-2004 5:10 AM Peter has replied

  
Peter
Member (Idle past 1510 days)
Posts: 2161
From: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Joined: 02-05-2002


Message 28 of 37 (82978)
02-04-2004 6:09 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by crashfrog
01-27-2004 5:10 AM


Well ... that seems to have put a stop to it all.
I have wondered, though, whether multicellular organisms
can be considered to be highly dependent colonies, with
individuality being an emergent property.
I think cell differentiation might put the kibosh on that
though.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by crashfrog, posted 01-27-2004 5:10 AM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by crashfrog, posted 02-04-2004 7:07 AM Peter has replied

  
Peter
Member (Idle past 1510 days)
Posts: 2161
From: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Joined: 02-05-2002


Message 30 of 37 (82997)
02-04-2004 8:23 AM
Reply to: Message 29 by crashfrog
02-04-2004 7:07 AM


isn't individuality always an emergent property?
Now that you mention it ... well yeah.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by crashfrog, posted 02-04-2004 7:07 AM crashfrog has not replied

  
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