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Author Topic:   Do Cells know they're part of something bigger?
tabularasa
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 37 (45847)
07-12-2003 5:09 PM


I learned in high school that the order of living organization is:
Cell
Tissue
Organ
Organ System
Organism
It makes perfect sense. Only, I wonder if on some level a cell has conciousness. Does it understand it's position? Is it possible that it might have inteligence?
An added question/theory: I wonder if it is impossible that we also might be part of something bigger. Could you say that the Eco-system might be in and of itself an organism? What if life itself is a being? Why else would all life on earth be writen in the same four letter of DNA? GCAT? The only difference between you and a plant is how your letters are arranged, and how many of them there are. What if life on earth is a sentient being with awareness and intelect? What if DNA is God's language, and we are all in God's image because we are alive?
Think about it. The eco-system has a very advanced homeostasis procedure. Like a human body, nature can heal itself. It is very human of us to put ourseves at the top of the evolutionary ladder, but what if we were all REALLY just a part of something bigger? What if? I think that might explain on a different level disease, deity, homosexuality, and a whole slew of other things. What if the real order is:
Cell
Tissue
Organ
Organ System
Individual Organism
Supreme Organism
Please don't judge this idea until you've really asked yourself all the questions. I'd love some feedback on it.
[This message has been edited by tabularasa, 07-12-2003]

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by Gzus, posted 07-12-2003 6:47 PM tabularasa has not replied
 Message 5 by nator, posted 07-13-2003 12:07 AM tabularasa has not replied
 Message 6 by Andya Primanda, posted 07-15-2003 4:51 AM tabularasa has not replied
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 Message 18 by alice net carlo, posted 01-22-2004 9:27 AM tabularasa has not replied
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tabularasa
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 37 (45848)
07-12-2003 5:11 PM


(by the way)
And if brain cells are self aware, do you think they have superiority complexes?

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 735 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 3 of 37 (45851)
07-12-2003 5:44 PM


I don't know about "conciousness," but cells most assuredly "know" quite a bit about where they are and what they need to do next. You and I started out as zygotes whose individual cells migrated, differentiated, etc., depending on where they were in the little ball of dividing cells. Bacteria in biofilms take on different roles depending on position.
But I'll leave the philosophy alone, except for the old speculation that our entire universe is an elementary particle - maybe an electron - in some other universe.
[This message has been edited by Coragyps, 07-12-2003]

  
Gzus
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 37 (45855)
07-12-2003 6:47 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by tabularasa
07-12-2003 5:09 PM


LOL......

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by tabularasa, posted 07-12-2003 5:09 PM tabularasa has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 5 of 37 (45873)
07-13-2003 12:07 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by tabularasa
07-12-2003 5:09 PM


Yeah, and then we could all wear cool black leather outfits and sunglasses when we were inside the Matrix.
We have to take the pill first, though...
[sorry, couldn't resist. It's in the program]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by tabularasa, posted 07-12-2003 5:09 PM tabularasa has not replied

  
Andya Primanda
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 37 (46052)
07-15-2003 4:51 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by tabularasa
07-12-2003 5:09 PM


I have some doubts against the idea that Nature's some kind of superorganism. I agree that cells somehow 'know' if they are part of something bigger; and to some extent, some individual organisms know that they're part of a society. Termites, ants, aphids make a familiar example. But to claim that all of Nature is one superorganism, then how could it have members that kill, exploit, or antagonize each other?
The apparent homeostasis and benign-ness of Nature as I see it is just the ghost of past competition. Those who couldn't keep up with changes in nature are doomed. We see only survivors now.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by tabularasa, posted 07-12-2003 5:09 PM tabularasa has not replied

  
Peter
Member (Idle past 1480 days)
Posts: 2161
From: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Joined: 02-05-2002


Message 7 of 37 (46063)
07-15-2003 8:05 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by tabularasa
07-12-2003 5:09 PM


quote:
Only, I wonder if on some level a cell has conciousness. Does it understand it's position? Is it possible that it might have inteligence?
No. A cell is a bio-machine 'programmed' from it's inception to
perform a certain function.
I use all of the above terms loosely, rather than literally.
I do not believe that a multi-cellular organism could exist
if each cell had 'intellegence' or 'conciousness'.
Just my opinion, naturally.
quote:
Could you say that the Eco-system might be in and of itself an organism?
Only as a loose analogy ... eco-systems do not reproduce, for
example.
quote:
Why else would all life on earth be writen in the same four letter of DNA?
It's just the way it happened. Reading some grand design into
it after the fact may be comforting, but there is not evidential
basis for doing so.
quote:
It is very human of us to put ourseves at the top of the evolutionary ladder, but what if we were all REALLY just a part of something bigger?
Very human and entirely inappropriate.
What would be the evidence for this?
What 'bigger' thing are we part of? A super-eco-organism?
Perhaps in the future we will all become one with nature????

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by tabularasa, posted 07-12-2003 5:09 PM tabularasa has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by JONATHAN_KERPACUS, posted 07-15-2003 11:55 AM Peter has replied

  
JONATHAN_KERPACUS
Inactive Junior Member


Message 8 of 37 (46099)
07-15-2003 11:55 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by Peter
07-15-2003 8:05 AM


YEA YOU ARE GONNA BE WITH NATURE FOR ETERNITY IF YOU
DONT WISE UP......YOU SOUND LIKE YOU ARE A ATHEIST...YOUR CHOICE..
BUT PERSONALLY I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A SIMPLE CHOICE...ITS COST FREE....AND TAKES VIRTUALLY NO ENERGY EXCEPT A BIT OF THOUGHT...
YOU MAY WANT TO "DIE" HOWEVER, PERSONALLY I LIKE LIFE...AND I WILL CHOOSE TO CONTINUE TO EXIST....
TO THINK THAT ALL THINGS ARE ONLY COIENCIDENCES...I.E. GENETIC CODES...IS LUDACRIS......
YEA ALL THESE HAPPENSTANCES......LMAO......PEOPLE WISE UP!!!!!!!
IF YOU COMPARE IT TO I.E. LOTTERIES....THE CHANCES OF ALL THE SCIENTIFIC COIENCIDENCES....ARE LIKE A GOGAPLEX TO ONE....OR A GOOGAPLEX OF GOOGAPLEXES TO ONE.....OR INFINITE GOGAPLEXES TO ONE....GET THE PICTURE....THE ODDS OF ALL HAPPENING BY COIDENDENCE IS HAMMERED BY ODDS!!!!!!!!!!!!IT JUST AINT GONNA JUST HAPPEN...
I MADE UP A NEW TERM....MIRACULOUS COIENCIDENCES.....THERE YOU GO...YOU WILL BE HEARNING FROM ME MUCH MORE....

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Peter, posted 07-15-2003 8:05 AM Peter has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 12 by Mammuthus, posted 07-16-2003 8:12 AM JONATHAN_KERPACUS has not replied

  
Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 37 (46102)
07-15-2003 12:11 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by JONATHAN_KERPACUS
07-15-2003 11:55 AM


Re: YEA YOU ARE GONNA BE WITH NATURE FOR ETERNITY IF YOU
quote:
TO THINK THAT ALL THINGS ARE ONLY COIENCIDENCES...I.E. GENETIC CODES...IS LUDACRIS......
So... you're saying that this is the supreme being?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by JONATHAN_KERPACUS, posted 07-15-2003 11:55 AM JONATHAN_KERPACUS has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by John, posted 07-15-2003 8:01 PM Dan Carroll has not replied

  
Peter
Member (Idle past 1480 days)
Posts: 2161
From: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Joined: 02-05-2002


Message 10 of 37 (46108)
07-15-2003 12:35 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by JONATHAN_KERPACUS
07-15-2003 11:55 AM


Re: YEA YOU ARE GONNA BE WITH NATURE FOR ETERNITY IF YOU
Do you mind not shouting
quote:
DONT WISE UP......YOU SOUND LIKE YOU ARE A ATHEIST...YOUR CHOICE..
BUT PERSONALLY I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A SIMPLE CHOICE...ITS COST FREE....AND TAKES VIRTUALLY NO ENERGY EXCEPT A BIT OF THOUGHT...
I have put more than 'A BIT' of thought into it over the years,
and yes I am 'A ATHEIST'
quote:
YOU MAY WANT TO "DIE" HOWEVER, PERSONALLY I LIKE LIFE...AND I WILL CHOOSE TO CONTINUE TO EXIST....
TO THINK THAT ALL THINGS ARE ONLY COIENCIDENCES...I.E. GENETIC CODES...IS LUDACRIS......
YEA ALL THESE HAPPENSTANCES......LMAO......PEOPLE WISE UP!!!!!!!
IF YOU COMPARE IT TO I.E. LOTTERIES....THE CHANCES OF ALL THE SCIENTIFIC COIENCIDENCES....ARE LIKE A GOGAPLEX
TO ONE....OR A GOOGAPLEX OF GOOGAPLEXES TO ONE.....OR INFINITE GOGAPLEXES TO ONE....GET THE PICTURE....THE
ODDS OF ALL HAPPENING BY COIDENDENCE IS HAMMERED BY ODDS!!!!!!!!!!!!IT JUST AINT GONNA JUST HAPPEN...
I MADE UP A NEW TERM....MIRACULOUS COIENCIDENCES.....THERE YOU GO...YOU WILL BE HEARNING FROM ME MUCH
MORE....
Not sure what the dying thing has to do with anything...
The probabilities thing is LUDACRIS though. Check through all the
threads here and you'll find all kinds of refutations of that
line of reasoning.
It's only MIRACULOUS COIENCIDENCES if you assume that the
extant set of critters on the planet was intended to be
here from the start ... ToE makes no such assumption.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by JONATHAN_KERPACUS, posted 07-15-2003 11:55 AM JONATHAN_KERPACUS has not replied

  
John
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 37 (46163)
07-15-2003 8:01 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Dan Carroll
07-15-2003 12:11 PM


Re: YEA YOU ARE GONNA BE WITH NATURE FOR ETERNITY IF YOU

This message is a reply to:
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Mammuthus
Member (Idle past 6476 days)
Posts: 3085
From: Munich, Germany
Joined: 08-09-2002


Message 12 of 37 (46212)
07-16-2003 8:12 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by JONATHAN_KERPACUS
07-15-2003 11:55 AM


Re: YEA YOU ARE GONNA BE WITH NATURE FOR ETERNITY IF YOU
Is this where you keep your googaplexes?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by JONATHAN_KERPACUS, posted 07-15-2003 11:55 AM JONATHAN_KERPACUS has not replied

  
DC85
Member (Idle past 380 days)
Posts: 876
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


Message 13 of 37 (47632)
07-27-2003 11:29 PM


yes I too wonder if the universe is Part of something bigger. but we will never know there is no point in wondering really........

Replies to this message:
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Peter
Member (Idle past 1480 days)
Posts: 2161
From: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Joined: 02-05-2002


Message 14 of 37 (47672)
07-28-2003 6:45 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by DC85
07-27-2003 11:29 PM


How can the universe be part of something bigger -- that
would just be more universe wouldn't it?
Or did you mean meta-physically?

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Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by zephyr, posted 07-28-2003 11:43 AM Peter has replied

  
zephyr
Member (Idle past 4551 days)
Posts: 821
From: FOB Taji, Iraq
Joined: 04-22-2003


Message 15 of 37 (47727)
07-28-2003 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by Peter
07-28-2003 6:45 AM


quote:
How can the universe be part of something bigger -- that
would just be more universe wouldn't it?
I'm 110% sure that you're right.
What happened to Mr. Kerpacus anyway? If we don't "HEARN" from him again, this thread could end up *gasp* back on topic!
I think the idea of all of us being part of a larger consciousness is interesting. What if the earth were aware of itself as the sum of our interaction, humans and animals and volcanoes and moving water, and aware of how minute and varied it all is? Maybe humanity would just be a short-lived headache, and viruses and prions a cocktail of painkillers.
However... I don't think the idea ever gets past the realm of amusing speculation. Consciousness in general is so hard to define (since all of our thought exists within it) that the discussion will probably stay in that area. As far as our cells being conscious, I'd think that would require a mechanism to transport signals within a cell like our neural impulses.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Peter, posted 07-28-2003 6:45 AM Peter has replied

Replies to this message:
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