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Author Topic:   Is the Bible acceptable?
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 111 (455341)
02-11-2008 10:37 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Reality Man
02-11-2008 3:59 PM


Please enlighten me.
Fo sho, dirty. With pleasure
Is the Bible acceptable in discussions? Is it not ignorant to say, "well in the bible, it says" etc.
When discussing the Bible, the Bible is acceptable in discussions. When discussing science, it is not.
I like to argue with fundamentalist Christians about what the Bible really means, so I can certainly accept the Bible as an explanation for an argument. Which is actually kinda ironic because if we are interpreting it then it isn't being taken literally, but that is another topic.
From my point of view, in the Bible, having been translated into over 2300 languages and dialects, and being quite an ancient text written and rewritten by, if I may, primitives, things can become mixed up.
I definitely understand that point, but I also understand that if God wanted His message to be accurately translated, then it is perfectly in His capability to make that happen. Do you know what I mean?
Add to that nothing in the Bible is proven to be true.
Do you think it is possible for truths to remain unproven? I do.*
I therefore have difficulty seeing how anything related to the texts from the Bible are at all reliable sources of information.
If God is capable of preventing mix-ups, and not all truths are proven, then the Bible could easily be The Truth™. But not literally, which I don't subscribe too.
The Bible describes all kinds of truths, IMHO, but I am capable of seeing my bias towards the Bible being truthful... ya know, being Catholic and all.

*WRT truths being unproven: I was raised Catholic and educated in the
sciences. I still find Science's failure to recognize things that I find to be The Truth™ as a reason to accept extra-scientific explanations for the Truth.
I just don't find Science to be the authority on what is truth, IMH(ysa)O.
However, if the Bible says something that experience claims otherwise, I am not going to lie to myself to maintain validity in the Bible. Kinda like I'm not going to lie to myself to maintain validity in Science. Get it?

Science fails to recognize the single most potent element of human existence.
Letting the reigns go to the unfolding is faith, faith, faith, faith.
Science has failed our world.
Science has failed our Mother Earth.
-System of a Down, "Science"
He who makes a beast out of himself, gets rid of the pain of being a man.
-Avenged Sevenfold, "Bat Country"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Reality Man, posted 02-11-2008 3:59 PM Reality Man has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by ThreeDogs, posted 02-12-2008 9:57 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 111 (455396)
02-12-2008 10:24 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by ThreeDogs
02-12-2008 9:57 AM


First let me say that you argument is a little bit too ad hominem for my taste.
Being catholic and all means you subscribe to the following contention about the bible:
Let me let you in on a little secret. Not all catholics believe the same thing and not all catholics believe everything that is suggested they believe.
For the Christian, who knows what Christian means, the bible is the only resource extant to search for and learn the meaning of salvation.
That means, then, that there were no Christians before the Bible. That is demonstratably false.
It means that he believes God has the power to make certain that regardless of the many hands that touch it, the plan of salvation remains intact.
Sure. And that also means that God has the power to make certain that his plans for His Church remain intact as well.
Argue with fundamentalists about what the bible really means and it means something to them and nothing to you.
Ad hominem. Don't tell me what I believe.
Catholics have a specific style of arguing, which they do for the church and what she says and not the bible for what it says.
Not always and not necessarily.
But anyways, whatever argument you use for the validity of the Bible could be used in the same way for the validity of the Church.
That's a little too long, but interesting.
What's so interesting? We all have the power of the holy spirit to understand revelation but the Magisterium is the authority on what is the Word of God.
God has the power to keep them accurate in the same way he does with the Bible's translations. What's the problem?
Plus, its not like the authority is just pulling shit out of a hat. People have dedicated their entire lives for that authenticity and I'm sure they've done a better job than I have.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by ThreeDogs, posted 02-12-2008 9:57 AM ThreeDogs has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 20 of 111 (455756)
02-13-2008 5:03 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by ICANT
02-13-2008 2:52 PM


Re: Re Nothing Proven
I thought I was trying to say the Bible and Science agree that the universe had a beginning. Did I fall overboard somewhere?
Do you think it is possible that when Prof. Hawking said that time had a beginning, that he was using dumbed-down terminology to express an idea to people that wouldn't understand the maths?
And also that his use of the word "beginning" is totally different than the creation ex nihilo that is implied in the Bible. Do you think that is possible at all?
Science and the Bible DO NOT agree that the universe had a beginning. Science still doesn't know and it most certainly is not the creation ex nihilo that the Bible is talking about so even if science does come to a consensus, its beginning will still be different from the Bible's beginning.
Sorry, but you're just plain wrong.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by ICANT, posted 02-13-2008 2:52 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by ICANT, posted 02-13-2008 5:16 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 22 of 111 (455763)
02-13-2008 5:23 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by ICANT
02-13-2008 5:16 PM


Re: Re Nothing Proven
Are you saying the accepted Big Bang Theory does not put forth that the Universe had a beginning about 13+ billion years ago?
Yes.
And when Prof. Hawking says that it had a beginning, he does not mean "beginning" in the way you are using it.
You can move the date for natural creation as far back as you want somewhere you must find a beginning. Because it is and we are.
Or its eternal.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by ICANT, posted 02-13-2008 5:16 PM ICANT has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by Logic, posted 02-13-2008 7:01 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
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