God vs. Science

So...Let's say God really did help you in this instance, becasue someone prayed.What about all the much more horrible scenarios in which people have prayed for help, and the bad thing that they were wanting to avoid happened anyway, despite the praying?

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Technically, you are asking them to take them on faith. A student may not always see his teacher's diploma. The student therefore has to have faith that either the school did a good, thorough search on their teachers or the teacher actually did pass his/her collage classes.

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No, that's trust, not faith.The difference being, anyone could actually check to see if the school did a thorough search for teachers and that the teacher passed their college exams.Religious faith can't be checked like that.Edited by nator, : No reason given.

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I know that God did this for me (along with other things). I know that God exists. Whether you believe what He did for me is your choice.

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No, you don't know these things.You believe them.There's a difference.

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I have no idea how God works.

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Hold on a minute.You just told a story in which you very much claim to know how God works.You said that it was definitely God who helped you out in the water, but now you say you don't have any idea how God works.Why is it that you get to claim how God works when something good happens to you, but when something bad happens to other people in spite of their appeals to God, you suddenly claim complete ignorance know how God does anything?

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I feel that I will only understand why things happen when I get to Heaven. However, I do know that all things work out for the better.

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No, they most certainly do not.

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For example, in my seventh grade year, my father moved away to Montana (I was living in Vancouver, Washington at the time) and my two best friends stabbed me in the back. I was depressed, and seriously considered suicide. How in the world would that work out for the better?

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Well, now, I realize that through that expiriance, I learned how to choose good friends that would never stab me in the back. I learned to be more independant of my parents. I learned how God, even though He allows some things to happen, will always carry you through the hard times (just like that footsteps poem) to the other side, where you're a better person.

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You can't shape metal without heating it up and hitting it.

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Of course, many, many people in this world lead a life of starvation, oppression, disease, suffering and an early, often violent death, and you are trying to tell me that this is for the best?Spare me.Maybe you need to learn a little more about people who live a bit less rich than you do.

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What good would looking at a diploma do?
A piece of paper means nothing.

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A college diploma (from a accredited school) is more than a mere "piece of paper".It is an official document which states that the person who's name is on it has completed the requirements that this particular institution of higher education has set for the degree stated on the diploma.

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It tells you nothing about the qualifications of a person, only that they have completed the requirements to obtain the diploma.

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If the position being hired for requires a certain kind of degree, a diploma most certainly tells us something about the qualifications of a person.Edited by nator, : No reason given.

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It seems like a lot of our people in education does also.

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My brother does not. He says only about ten percent of those appling for a teaching position in his county are qualified to teach.

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So, what is your brother's lofty position that he can pass judgement upon the qualification of hundreds, perhaps thousands, of teachers in his county?And, how did he go about evaluating all of these teachers, and how did he arrive at the 10% figure?

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He the guy who hire and fire.

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The first 10 years he recommended who to hire and fire. Then he was given total responsibility.

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He has a test they have to pass for the subject they are interviewing for. Then he interviews each one and checks for people skills.

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Maybe he just has his goals set too high. He is a perfectionist.

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But his job is easy now. He has very little turn over. He keeps good teachers until they retire or die.

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He keeps records of all interviews and test results.

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So, it perhaps isn't that the people he rejected weren't qualified, but that he has very high standards and they didn't meet his standard.Just because someone didn't get their engineering degree at MIT doesn't mean that they aren't qualified to build a bridge, you know.Just because someone doesn't meet your brother's qualifications (and we don't know if they had more to do with his own biases rather than a real objective assesment of teaching ability) doesn't mean they aren't qualified teachers.I mean, what are the statistics from his county? Is his one of the best school districts in the country as far as test scores and kids going on to college or something?And how did he come to the 10% figure?

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Oh, just like you don't know evolution happened, you only believe them.

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Incorrect.I trust that the very same scientific method that put men on the moon, split the atom, and eliminated smallpox from the face of the earth is also able to help us understand how life changed over time.I can check all of the evidence for Evolution against reality if so choose, using that same method.The scientific method works, you know, regardless if you believe in it, or the results you get, or not.So you see, I don't simply believe in Evolution, like you believe in God.My trust is very conditional. The evidence in reality, that any disinterested observer can accept, is what I require.If you accept as effective and trustwothy the method that produces every modern medical breakthrough, then how can you reject that very same method when one of its findings contradicts your religious beliefs?

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How about this?

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I know how God works.

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I do not know why God does what He does.

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That's still a problem for you.You now have a lot of explaining for why God would cause millions to be born only to live horrible lives of suffering and fear, before they die young, never knowing health, love, or any joy at all.That he picked you, a privilaged rich person, to help with something as trivial and meaningless as your raft getting stuck, when millions are suffering, or being raped, or getting shot, or blown up, or stabbed, and he makes not one effort to do anything about it....but He's very concerned with your raft.your God has strange priorities.

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A diploma can be forged.

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Sure.What's your point?

So, do you think that all scientists are dumbasses?

LOL!Fair enough.

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Are you saying since I do not have an engineering degree that all the interstate bridges I built 40 years ago are going to fall down?

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You designed the bridges? Or built them?Anyway, you missed the point of my analogy.When I wrote: It was just another way of saying that just because teachers (or civil engineers) didn't pass muster with your brother's high standards (like they have at MIT) doesn't mean they aren't qualified to teach (build bridges).Just becasue people don't pass a very difficult test doesn't mean they aren't adequate to a particular task, in other words.So, where did he get the 10% figure?

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I had 2 years classroom then 4 years of on the job and classroom training.

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Not many schools have such a program.

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Of course, that isn't true. Many, many schools have a lot of practical coursework, required internships, etc.