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Author Topic:   Defining Unconditional love
ThreeDogs
Member (Idle past 5880 days)
Posts: 77
From: noli me calcare
Joined: 01-08-2008


Message 5 of 104 (447902)
01-11-2008 11:20 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by pelican
01-09-2008 8:48 AM


quote:
I believe that the Jesus' story shows the criteria of unconditional love> For example, there is no greater love than to lay down your life for a friend, love thine enemies, forgive them for they know not what they do and more.
The practising of unconditional love can been a burden and wonder if it is at all possible to truly love unconditionally, taking the word as literally meaning : without condition? This translates into being without judgment and putting the recipients well being and feelings first at all times.
In a love relationship with anyone, do the lovers expect something in return? Does Jesus? Or does He show the lengths He has gone to receive love in return?
Putting the well-being of a lover before one's own, is common sense, or the lover will soon find someone else who does meet the requirements in the relationship.
Platonic love, on the other hand, is not what Jesus practices, nor do true lovers in a lovers' relationship.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by pelican, posted 01-09-2008 8:48 AM pelican has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by macaroniandcheese, posted 01-11-2008 11:25 AM ThreeDogs has replied
 Message 13 by pelican, posted 01-11-2008 9:15 PM ThreeDogs has not replied
 Message 30 by nator, posted 01-12-2008 5:48 PM ThreeDogs has replied

  
ThreeDogs
Member (Idle past 5880 days)
Posts: 77
From: noli me calcare
Joined: 01-08-2008


Message 51 of 104 (448608)
01-14-2008 9:03 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by macaroniandcheese
01-11-2008 11:25 AM


quote:
what part of "love your enemy" and "love your neighbor" does not include platonic love? you know. unless you think we should be having free sex (i really doubt it.)
Equating love with sex is off the subject. Love your enemy and your neighbor is not wanting something in return? I'm not talking about wacky tv shows, I'm talking about Christian love expressed toward others with hope the same will be returned. Jesus hopes His love is returned; I hope my love is returned.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by macaroniandcheese, posted 01-11-2008 11:25 AM macaroniandcheese has not replied

  
ThreeDogs
Member (Idle past 5880 days)
Posts: 77
From: noli me calcare
Joined: 01-08-2008


Message 52 of 104 (448609)
01-14-2008 9:13 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by nator
01-12-2008 5:48 PM


quote:
Well, I don't know about Jesus, but if we're talking about the Abrahamic God, He most definitely expects a lot in return.
The OT God's love is very conditional.
Do you have children? Are they faithful to you and the sacrifices you have made for them? If they were not (and there are many who are not), how would you feel, expecially when they make all kinds of promises only to flaunt them at you at every turn and you plead with them to think, because you have also spoken about consequences, but they still do not listen?
I call myself your child, I identify with you, I am identified with you. If I do not behave as should your child, I behave as if I should be someone else's child, you'd look for ways to change that, yes? What should happen to the bullheaded who will never change? You will stop calling them your children.
Jesus is the Abrahamic God, and He most certainly expects something in return in reciprocation for those things He did to get it. The remarkable thing about that is, it is our decision to do or not to do.
Edited by ThreeDogs, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by nator, posted 01-12-2008 5:48 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by ringo, posted 01-14-2008 1:12 PM ThreeDogs has replied
 Message 56 by nator, posted 01-14-2008 6:26 PM ThreeDogs has replied

  
ThreeDogs
Member (Idle past 5880 days)
Posts: 77
From: noli me calcare
Joined: 01-08-2008


Message 53 of 104 (448612)
01-14-2008 9:30 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by pelican
01-09-2008 8:48 AM


quote:
I believe that the Jesus' story shows the criteria of unconditional love> For example, there is no greater love than to lay down your life for a friend, love thine enemies, forgive them for they know not what they do and more.
The practising of unconditional love can been a burden and wonder if it is at all possible to truly love unconditionally, taking the word as literally meaning : without condition? This translates into being without judgment and putting the recipients well being and feelings first at all times.
Can unconditional love be defined in any other way?
I'm giving you the dictionary definition of unconditional. It means there are no strings attached. This has absolutely nothing to do with judgment. Neither is Jesus' love unconditional, since He most certainly expects something in return, since there are most certainly strings attached.
un·con·di·tion·al
-adjective 1. not limited by conditions; absolute: an unconditional promise.
Christ's love is limited by conditions we must meet to meet His promises of eternal life. Since we are His creatures, His property if you will, we receive all His promises. If you think about this logically, rather than emotionally, you will have a better understanding of what God means when He says ... Come let us reason together!
Isaiah 1:18 (King James Version)
18Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD:

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by pelican, posted 01-09-2008 8:48 AM pelican has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by pelican, posted 01-14-2008 6:22 PM ThreeDogs has replied
 Message 58 by ICANT, posted 01-14-2008 7:58 PM ThreeDogs has replied

  
ThreeDogs
Member (Idle past 5880 days)
Posts: 77
From: noli me calcare
Joined: 01-08-2008


Message 62 of 104 (448795)
01-15-2008 9:35 AM
Reply to: Message 54 by ringo
01-14-2008 1:12 PM


quote:
If you can't care for your children adequately, you might give up their care to somebody else who is more capable. But that doesn't apply to God.
Are you familiar with the biblical term reprobate? Check it out, if you are not.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by ringo, posted 01-14-2008 1:12 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by ringo, posted 01-15-2008 11:16 AM ThreeDogs has replied

  
ThreeDogs
Member (Idle past 5880 days)
Posts: 77
From: noli me calcare
Joined: 01-08-2008


Message 63 of 104 (448797)
01-15-2008 9:41 AM
Reply to: Message 55 by pelican
01-14-2008 6:22 PM


Re: Love and fear
quote:
Literally speaking, are you saying we will recieve unconditional love in the after life IF we obey the conditions laid down in this life?
You are too hung up on the word conditional and unconditional. You won't find it in scripture, so it must be something from the vocabulary of your affiliations.
quote:
How can you reason that unconditional love comes from conditional love? If we have to obey and change ourselves then we are not being loved for who we are. We cannot be who someone else wants us to be, no matter how hard we try. No matter what we project on the ouside in form of behaviour, we are the same person on the inside.
This doesn't make much sense to me, since change is the first requirement of our relationship with Jesus. If you cannot be what He wants you to be, even tho He makes the tools for it available, you don't understand a thing about Him.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by pelican, posted 01-14-2008 6:22 PM pelican has replied

Replies to this message:
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ThreeDogs
Member (Idle past 5880 days)
Posts: 77
From: noli me calcare
Joined: 01-08-2008


Message 64 of 104 (448801)
01-15-2008 9:47 AM
Reply to: Message 56 by nator
01-14-2008 6:26 PM


quote:
So, God's feelings can be hurt like a human parent's can?
Yes, they can. You only have to read the bible to know that His feelings were wounded again and again.
quote:
Wow, I feel sorry for you if you had parents like that, and I feel sorry for your children, if they exist, if you feel that you could ever disown them or stop loving them.
Familiarize yourself with the biblical term reprobate, what it is and when it happens.
quote:
The point is, God's love is very conditional, as you've explained. this kind of contradicts the "God is Love" description we hear from Christians, doesn't it?
Your observation is entirely your own, much more, you are entitled to have it.
quote:
Right. God doesn't offer unconditional love. We have to do something for Him or get punished.
Are you now, in your life, punished for wrongdoing? If you don't believe in His existence, why do you ask such questions?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by nator, posted 01-14-2008 6:26 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 76 by nator, posted 01-15-2008 6:02 PM ThreeDogs has not replied

  
ThreeDogs
Member (Idle past 5880 days)
Posts: 77
From: noli me calcare
Joined: 01-08-2008


Message 65 of 104 (448802)
01-15-2008 9:52 AM
Reply to: Message 58 by ICANT
01-14-2008 7:58 PM


Re: Re-Conditions
quote:
Would you please state these conditions?
What did Jesus tell the rich young ruler?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by ICANT, posted 01-14-2008 7:58 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 67 by ICANT, posted 01-15-2008 12:53 PM ThreeDogs has replied

  
ThreeDogs
Member (Idle past 5880 days)
Posts: 77
From: noli me calcare
Joined: 01-08-2008


Message 68 of 104 (448878)
01-15-2008 3:26 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by ICANT
01-15-2008 12:53 PM


Re: Re-Conditions
quote:
So could you be a little more specific and show me where Jesus said you or even this rich young ruler had to meet certain conditions to receive his unconditional love.
Be glad to ....
From Luke 18:[22] "... Then come, follow me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by ICANT, posted 01-15-2008 12:53 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 71 by ICANT, posted 01-15-2008 4:08 PM ThreeDogs has not replied

  
ThreeDogs
Member (Idle past 5880 days)
Posts: 77
From: noli me calcare
Joined: 01-08-2008


Message 69 of 104 (448881)
01-15-2008 3:34 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by ringo
01-15-2008 11:16 AM


From Romans 1
I let my points be made for me, and thank you for your help, in particular and especially. However, you have served your usefulness, but again, thank you.
----------------------------------
28And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
Ro 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by ringo, posted 01-15-2008 11:16 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
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