That certain kind of Christian

Yup, that certain kind of christian... but I just find it odd that I haven't heard of or seen any christian rally FOR people's rights. I've said this before and I'll say it again. Silence is another way of saying you approve of the hatred.Edited by Taz, : No reason given.

I don't know, jar. It seems to me that there are a lot of people that would fight for the rights of a specific group of people but then deny outright that another group of people deserved any right at all. You should read up on Ghandi's view of Africans.The most important thing we have to realize about human rights is that EVERYBODY have rights and not just a select group. Human rights are not up for debate. Human rights are not up for compromise. The fact that the African American community has repeatedly denied that same-sex marriage issue is a civil right issue should tell you something about their attitude.

The fire and brimstone raining down from the sky would ruin the crops.

Unfortunately, this is true. We had to debate whether the blacks were really people or not. We had to debate whether the females were capable of understanding politics. And unfortunately, we're still debating whether the gheys are competent enough to sign a damn marriage lisence. No, I'm not, jar. I'm saying that the christians who speak the language of hate are loud and numerous and the christians who claim to love don't seem to want to go out of their way to counter the other group. When was the last time you heard about a christian rally for gay rights? Instead, almost every month we hear about christians protesting against gays and the people who support them.Jar, you're a noble man, but there aren't enough of you around for you to claim that christianity is about love and tolerance. When you look at a group of people, your impression of that group depends on what you see as most are doing. And frankly, the fact that more and more states have referandums to ban gay marriage get voted for by record numbers should tell you something about the overall general christian attitude.And might I remind you that everytime nemesis_juggernaut compares gay people to murders, rapists, and people who eat feces, it's only atheists that would call him on it?Yes, many of you do speak out for human rights. But a great great many more seem to be against human rights.

Yeah, last I heard about that the church is splitting up. I'd hardly call that a good demonstration of christian tolerance.

Phat, are you disputing that black people being treated fairly like the rest of us is a human right or that women being allowed to vote and participate in politics is a human right?

Jar, the church IS the people in it. You sound like the church is just the bishop and the people are just spectators.Yes, it's a demonstration of supporting human rights, but I'm still waiting to see just how much of the whole church will truly support human rights and how much of it will act like the typical christian.Jar, I'm sure there were noble efforts among some 18th century Americans to abolish slavery. It doesn't mean that America as a whole wasn't a slave owning nation. I'm sure you can name a few nazis who helped saved people in Central Europe, but it doesn't mean the nazis weren't evil bastards.Jar, show me tangible results. Pointing out a hand full of christians who are willing to cast aside bigotry will only prove just that, a hand full of christians who are willing to cast aside bigotry. You still have a whole nation's worth of voters (the bulk of christianity in this nation) to look to to see what I mean.Edited by Taz, : No reason given.

Funny, you must have done it often enough for me not to notice, and I'm the person who engages him most often on this issue.

Ok, jar.

Huh?

As a matter of fact, I do notice that some christians do tell nem off. The thing is they hardly ever do.How about this, next time nem decides to compare gay people to people who eat feces or whatever, I'll keep my eyes wide open and see if indeed christians do rally to the defense of gay people.

I've brought up this point many times before. Christians claim with pride that god gives them free will. Look at the following scenario.Say that you are a rap artist. I have you all tied up and completely exposed. I tell you that you have to sing to me a rap song. If you don't, I will cut off your penis. Ok, so singing a rap song isn't that big of a deal, but is it free will anymore if you are faced with the fear of having your penis cut off?You might be a good person by nature. But is it free will for you to decide to do good if you are constantly haunted by the threat of eternal damnation?

Actually, it is if you consider where the free will is suppose to come from. God gave us free will, but then puts a gun on our heads and forces us to do certain things, like worship him, under the threat of eternal damnation. How can you possibly have free will to choose if your options are limited?

But you're forgetting that according to christians free will is entirely from god... along with everything else. I've had this discussion with many many christians. It's rare to find a christian that doesn't believe free will is entirely from god.