Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 59 (9164 total)
5 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,925 Year: 4,182/9,624 Month: 1,053/974 Week: 12/368 Day: 12/11 Hour: 0/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Man in gods image... How ?
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3699 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 67 of 82 (439462)
12-08-2007 9:16 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by ringo
12-08-2007 10:24 AM


quote:
Isaiah 44 talks about graven images of God. Ezekiel 28 and 1 Samuel 15 talk about man being different from God. What we're looking for here is how man is similar to God.
Yes, these negate [impact] any premise of image of God; the 'HOW' of the thread title is thus catered to. Samuel states 'God is not like man' - meaning no image can represent God.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by ringo, posted 12-08-2007 10:24 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by ringo, posted 12-08-2007 9:21 PM IamJoseph has replied

  
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3699 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 69 of 82 (439476)
12-08-2007 9:54 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by ringo
12-08-2007 9:21 PM


No contradiction here. Genesis v1 refers to speech, and its context is what separates the kinds of life forms listed there. There was no 'man' prior to v1 - nor are the animals and birds and fish, NOT in Gd's image - a non-sensical view here. If the interpretation of v1 is eronous and affirmed as such by other factors, it means:
WRONG WAY - GO BACK.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by ringo, posted 12-08-2007 9:21 PM ringo has not replied

  
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3699 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 74 of 82 (443444)
12-25-2007 12:48 AM
Reply to: Message 73 by ringo
12-22-2007 10:52 AM


Re: Bird man!
quote:
My point is that the traits we've been discussing are physical. An "image" implies physical traits. I'm just saying that if there is a woo-woo "spiritual" resemblance between man and God, I don't see it in Genesis 1.
When one deliberates and contemplates this deeply, they will arrive at the same conclusion as the OT prophets and sages did. This 'our image' refers to speech, a Godlike trait, which seperates humans from all other life forms.
It does not refer to any physical traits, which is why Darwin did not differentiate speech from skeletal and biological imprints, constituting a great error, and one which led to the wrong path: atheism and Polytheism; it also contradicts the 2nd Command from Sinai. Its proof is that genesis classifies humans a different species ['kind'], and there is only one difference here. Speech.
It is speech which gives humans the Gdlike trait of emulating creation, and become the most superior life form. It is also what God used to create the universe:
'AND THE LORD *SAID* LET THERE BE LIFE' [Gen].
There were no tools or elements at this time. But there was speech, which is the conduit of a WILL/ACTION/THOUGHT. Nothing happens w/o speech - no cars, planes, stars, galaxies, gravity or pineapples - nothing.
Edited by IamJoseph, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by ringo, posted 12-22-2007 10:52 AM ringo has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 75 by Raphael, posted 12-28-2007 4:52 PM IamJoseph has replied

  
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3699 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 76 of 82 (444363)
12-29-2007 1:57 AM
Reply to: Message 75 by Raphael
12-28-2007 4:52 PM


Re: Bird man!
The bible does not say Gd is love; the NT says that. The OT lists 13 attributes, given by God, and this cannot be limited by one attribute. Its proof is that those who posit only the abstract and generic term of love, have displayed its reverse.
However, with images, this is a wholly human trait; it is not marked that those who worship via images are bad guys - its only how they act which determines this. This is why love per se cannot fix humanity's problems, and the reason 613 laws were poured unto humanity at Sinai. Prior to this time, all nations, including the hebrews, worshipped images. Abram was the son of an image producer for the king of Ur. IOW, a good image worshipper is better than a bad non-image worshipper. We are judged by what we do - not what we believe.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by Raphael, posted 12-28-2007 4:52 PM Raphael has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by Raphael, posted 12-29-2007 5:07 PM IamJoseph has replied

  
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3699 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 78 of 82 (445070)
01-01-2008 2:11 AM
Reply to: Message 77 by Raphael
12-29-2007 5:07 PM


Re: Bird man!
quote:
I never said God was limited by one attribute. I said that as an example of emotion being reflected in God as well as man.
I understand the intent of this premise is good, however it is not correct. The only antidote for bad/evil is the law, and love constitutes one factor of the law.
If you examine the 10 Commandments, two factors precede love: HONESTY [3rd C]; then 'RESPECT' [5th C]. These are precedent foundations for love: what kind of love in the absence of honesty and respect? This is also the reason the 5th does not say, LOVE THY PARENTS - which is biological and involuntary; instead the far more demanding 'HONOUR THEY PARENTS' is commanded. This means one must respect parents, the aged and the wise - even when a doscordance appears.
quote:
Are you saying that our actions is what makes us "the image of God"?
No, because we have no control how we are created. But I am saying that to be Godly, one has to follow the laws of God. The aspect of love is most seen in the OT laws; it is not a new discovery from anyone else. I have not seen 'LOVE THE STRANGER' any place but the OT, and the real test of this concept. Loving one's own, or one's neighbour is not the same - this has self interest attached to it. Nor have I seen a more powerful command concerning love than here:
'YOU SHALL LOVE THY GOD WITH ALL THY HEART [emotions], AND ALL THY MIGHT [deeds] AND ALL THY SOUL [spiritually]' [OT]
IOW, it is more than just a word.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by Raphael, posted 12-29-2007 5:07 PM Raphael has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by Raphael, posted 01-07-2008 12:42 PM IamJoseph has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024