|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: Divinity of Jesus | |||||||||||||||||||||||
jaywill Member (Idle past 1972 days) Posts: 4519 From: VA USA Joined: |
Where does it say the Messiah must be a descendent of Solomon? It seems like we've been through this before, a few years ago. I'm not going through it again. But to refresh me on your argument what passage says the Messiah must be a descendent of Solomon - OF SOLOMON? As I recall (and this is from memory, so forgive me), he was supposed to be a descendant of David. Since Solomon was David's son, Jesus would have to have been a descendant of Solomon as well. Not so. David had two sons at least - Solomon and Nathan. Jesus was a descendent of David through the line that ran through Nathan and not Solomon. This knock down drag out we've had before. Re-debating former debates with the same people in intervals of every five or six years is just a little too depressing to me. So interested parties should go to archive and find those former discussions. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
jaywill writes: Re-debating former debates with the same people in intervals of every five or six years is just a little too depressing to me. Imagine how those of us feel who have to go through the same points every five or six weeks.
So interested parties should go to archive and find those former discussions. Those of us who are truly trying to dispell the darkness know that ain't gonna happen. We have to keep working at it. Since you're one of the few dogmatists around here who actually knows anything about the Bible, it's a lot easier when we don't have to correct you all the time, too. “Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place” -- Joseph Goebbels ------------- Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Jon Inactive Member |
The problem with this passage you have referenced is that it is not referring to a town at all, it is referring to a clan. What is the difference?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Brian Member (Idle past 4990 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
What is the difference? Well this would mean that this 'messiah' mentioned by Micah would not have to be born in Bethlehem, as the author of Matthew incorrectly stated. The child could have been born anywhere in the world, as long as the child was from the clan of Bethlehem Ephrathah. From the context of Micah it is obvious that he is speaking about a clan, there has never been thousands of towns in Israel. It is equally obvious that this leader will appear soon and smite the Assyrians. It is a bit like the Isaiah 7:14 prophecy where the 'virgin' will give birth very soon as a sign to Ahaz that the current alliance against him would fail. Whoever wrote gMat completely ripped this prophecy out of context, which is a big and recurring feature of his work.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Brian Member (Idle past 4990 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
Jesus was a descendent of David through the line that ran through Nathan and not Solomon. My point exactly. The BIBLE says that the messiah comes from Solomon's bloodline, the BIBLE says Jesus was a descendant of Nathan (through Mary, even though bloodline doesnt go through women), thus Jesus could not have been the Messiah. Cognitive dissonance has to be at the core of Christianity.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
jaywill Member (Idle past 1972 days) Posts: 4519 From: VA USA Joined: |
Are you sure about that Brian?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Brian Member (Idle past 4990 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
About what Jay?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
jaywill Member (Idle past 1972 days) Posts: 4519 From: VA USA Joined: |
What is the Hebrew word for "bloodline" and can you show me its usage in the Old Testament in connection with Messianic passages?
Let's start there. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Brian Member (Idle past 4990 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
We have already been through this Jay, as you have already pointed out.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
jaywill Member (Idle past 1972 days) Posts: 4519 From: VA USA Joined: |
LOL!
Now you're talkin. Have a nice day.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Brian Member (Idle past 4990 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
Have a nice day. Oh I will have.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
jaywill Member (Idle past 1972 days) Posts: 4519 From: VA USA Joined: |
I'll leave you with a little funny story. It is about the first day I got a PC on the Internet with great enthusiam to chat about my Christian faith.
The first site I went to the moderator had been already overseeing the board for two years. He was about to leave the responsibility to someone else. I remember him telling the participants that in the two years he had spent as moderator he had yet one time to see anyone change their opinion about anything. That was my introduction to Internet Discussion Boards. Now about 16 years latter, by and large I see that he was right. LOL! You have to admit coming back around and having the same debates every couple of years with the same people is, well, like there is something else to life. So now you're on chipping away at the divinity of Jesus ? And that will accomplish for you ...? Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Brian Member (Idle past 4990 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
That was my introduction to Internet Discussion Boards. Now about 16 years latter, by and large I see that he was right. LOL! I would agree as far as their personal beliefs go, but I know a lot of people have changed their minds about certain histoical events after reading information on discussion boards. But this is different from a person's faith, and I worked out pretty quickly that I wouldn't change a Christian's mind about their faith. Only they can do that, but I still get amazed that anyone can study the OT and still take Jesus seriously, but that is their choice of course.
You have to admit coming back around and having the same debates every couple of years with the same people is, well, like there is something else to life. Sure, and is another reason why I dont post here very often, but EvC has served a good purpose.
And that will accomplish for you ...? An improved subject knowledge.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
jaywill Member (Idle past 1972 days) Posts: 4519 From: VA USA Joined: |
Saul of Tarsus was a man who fought hard against the idea of the Divinity of Jesus.
After Saul became Paul the Apostle he told us that God used him as a pattern of His longsuffering and ability to change a man from a lie to the truth:
"I give thanks to Him who empowers me, Christ Jesus our Lord, that He has counted me faithful, appointing me to the ministry. Who formerly was a blasphemer and a persecutor and an insulting person; but I was shown mercy because, being ignorant, I acted in unbelief... But because of this I was shown mercy, that in me, the foremost, Jesus Christ might display all His long-suffering or a pattern to those who are to believe on Him unto eternal life" (See 1 Tim. 12-16) I think this passage is very interesting because Paul was a strict Pharisee. As a Pharisee he would never commit blasphemy against God. But now he realizes that His denying the Lord Jesus Christ was his commiting blasphemy against God. IN other words he realizes now that he formerly fought against the Divinity of Jesus. Modern skeptic don't know what to do with such a person. Tyopically they concoct fabrications that Paul was not really a Pharisee or various other sundry lies to dull the impact of the man's personal testimony. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Brian Member (Idle past 4990 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
Modern skeptic don't know what to do with such a person. When I decided to leave Christianity, it was a very difficult decision, I obviously began to look at the Bible from a very different angle, and I do have a few problems with Paul’s conversion experience (apart from the usual objections of conflicting accounts). Think about this, if you wanted to popularise something what better way is there than to tell people that you once hated this product but now you realise how wrong you were? People would obviously find it more convincing that an opponent of something is now an avid supporter of it now.
Tyopically they concoct fabrications that Paul was not really a Pharisee or various other sundry lies to dull the impact of the man's personal testimony. Well, surely you agree that we only have Paul’s word that this conversion happened, we only have his word that he hated Christianity, and most of all, we only have his word that he had persecuted Christians. It is this final point that I have a real problem with because it just doesn’t sit right with what we know from external evidence. The idea that Paul could swoop into Damascus, on the orders of the Sanhedrin, to persecute Christians there really doesn’t sound plausible at all. What power did the Sanhedrin have in Syria? Then we have to recognise that the very same group that was supposed to be persecuting Christians allowed Paul to preach in their synagogues. Finally, under Pax Romana, it is difficult to imagine the Romans allowing this persecution to go ahead when they themselves allowed the nations under their Empire to follow their own faith. Thus, to me, I feel it is more believable that Paul never persecuted Christians, but that the story is a piece of propaganda invented to persuade people that Christianity must be true because one of its most fervent opponents is now persuaded that it is true.
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024